Cafes only allowing food bought on the premises to be consumed by your baby

[Canvas & Cream]

Hi All,

Joanna from Canvas & Cream here, nice to see a lively debate going on. We have been asking customers their opinions and ideas as we want o find solutions to the conflict between parents with babies/toddlers, those who want to work in quieter spaces and disabled people in wheelchairs who cannot negotiate a multitude of prams parked in the walkway. So far we have tried to accommodate everyone by:

On Tuesdays we remove a table and chairs to allow extra buggy parking. We also have singing and stoytelling for little ones at 11am. We sell children?s artpacks to keep them creative and happy while parents relax, these are put together by us and so are much more interesting than the run of the mill bit of paper and crayon. We have children?s books for them to use at their will. We put on a Free crown making workshop for children during the jubilee weekend and are putting on a summer solstice flower garland making workshop in the garden this week. There will be more childrens? activities available as time goes on and when we work out what is best to offer and when.

We offer fruit for sale, Ellas organic baby food, bear fruit snacks (dried fruit with no additives), vegetable crisps and childrens? portions from our menu. We offer Juice, water, milk, baby-chinos, hot chocolate etc. All our food is hand made from fresh seasonal ingredients by our chef, nothing is processed so its pretty similar to food made at home. We will try to accommodate dietary requirements where possible, would not stop people using formula and are delighted to see people breast feeding. I am at this very moment looking at the nook, it has six mums and babies in it, with pushchairs. Two others are parked further up the cafe. The limit on pushchairs was a guide to try and adhere to health and safety, especially regarding fire escapes and access for wheelchairs. We have spent the weekend creating an outside garden for those wishing to have a little more room and are sorting out a space for buggy parking out there too.

We have a private disabled toilet which many people use for changing babies, Baby changing facilities in the toilets downstairs are provided as of this morning. We welcome comments on our rather unorthodox approach!

We are trying to be inclusive to all our local community, sometimes their needs conflict and we are faced with the challenge of trying to satisfying everyone. We welcome any suggestions for solutions and came up with the above after consulting quite a few parents in the cafe.

We have been open for four months, we are doing well and have had a multitude of positive feedback from a vast array of people including parents and their children, we hope to keep improving and can do so by people making positive suggestions, so thanks to those that take the and time opportunity to do so.

[Saffron]

Thanks so much for the message. I'm looking forward to dropping in for a cuppa when I'm down your way.

[Belle]

Canvas & Cream I totally applaud you coming on here to respond and explain, as well as making changes where you've been able to.

Personally, the no change table thing bothers me less now than it might have done a while back, I've got used to the fact this can be hit and miss, and places which are child friendly but have no highchairs (Luca's for e.g.) annoy m e more! I do however agree that it's unreasonable and a bit naive to ask someone to refrain from giving their baby snacks. I have never stopped to wonder whether this might be ok, and have done it everywhere. In places like the Bishop, where for a time I took my then toddler for lunch every week, I used to take all sorts of snacks for him, and was never made to feel anything but utterly welcome. But, I was paying for a meal for myself, and meeting friends who were also buying food. Surely there's a judgement call here, for both cafes and patrons: where someone is sitting nursing a coffee for hours and their child eats a w hole meal they've brought from home, i can see that's annoying as you are not a creche. But if a reasonable amount of custom is coming from the individual, and in the meantime their children are being relatively well controlled by snacks brought in, surely that means everyone is happy?

[dulwichgirl2]

Joanna, I think you might get a spike in your trade following that eminently reasonable post. I would temper it with Belle's well put point about parents having lunch equals fine, parents nursing coffees equals less good for business and somehow, tactfully, to be deterred. How about an offer - coffee one pound with lunch, 2.50 on its own?

[DaveR]

A question for Canvas & Cream. It says on your website:

"Owing to Health and Hygiene regulations we can only allow food bought from us to be consumed on our premises"

Is that true? It doesn't seem to apply to any other cafe.

The title of the thread is "Cafes only allowing food bought on the premises to be consumed by your baby". If you're going to come and post on it, at least deal honestly with the point that is being made rather than coming out with a load of waffle.

[Gimme]

Bizarre. What health and safety issues arise from people eating their own raisins rather than your raisins.

Health of your profits?

[Saffron]

Just for perspective, I was in Gambado Softplay (Beckenham) recently. A sign clearly stated that no outside food was to be consumed except for baby food. However, it obviously doesn't say what "baby food" is. I think excluding for example the under-2s would seem fair. Can't see an H&S issue with that, but then I'm not in the food industry.

[Mens]

I hate people eating their own food anywhere cos my daughter has a nut allergy. It sends me into a panic! Someone got out a family pack of peanut bars on the train and I had to ask him to take them off of his kids until we got off (train was jam packed and they were sitting next to her). I can imagine that I must get on people's nerves when I freak out about nuts (such as the dad who got irate because my daughter's school wouldn't let his child bring in her favourite lunch - peanut butter sandwiches) but it is life or death for us....I spend most of my time at MacDonalds anyway as nowhere else seems safe enough.

Oh and the lady who offered my girl a chocolate nut yesterday freaked me out!!

[Saffron]

Mens are you keeping up with the LEAP study?

http://www.leapstudy.co.uk/LEAP.html

...

I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm going to say allergies are a personal health problem, not an H&S issue for a private eating establishment surely? (And, yes, I am hugely sympathetic to food allergies, as my brother has severe food allergies. So please don't take my statement the wrong way, as it's only meant to be a technical observation!)

[susyp]

I agree with DaveR. It's unacceptable that young children can't eat their own food. The chances of you having something that my daughter a) can eat (milk allergic) and b) would eat, are minimal, however we do frequently go out for lunch and I would buy lunch while she eats her own and perhaps has a bought drink. Maybe you should have a policy that over 5s have to have bought food, letting the younger children do their own thing (as long as their mothers buy lunch for themselves perhaps). I simply would not go to a cafe that had the policy you adhere to.

Susypx

ps Also my mum has multiple allergies and I have to say I would go bananas at an establishment that did not allow her to eat her own food while myself and my father, for example, ate bought food. It is isolating enough having an allergy without actually being isolated!

pps Also mens I don't know how old your daughter is but surely she will soon understand her allergy? I know your situation is far worse than mine, but my daughter always asks me before eating anything she hasn't had before. Her school doesn't allow nuts of any form in school either and of course that is eminently sensible, people that freak out about not being allowed peanut butter sandwiches are not even worth bothering with! (and it's also my daughter's favourite sandwich so I have had to explain to her that at picnics etc she can't offer bits to her friends without asking their mums first - easier thing to explain to someone who has their own allergy I know).

[Mens]

Thanks guys, will look at that study.

Well, I wasnt saying that people shouldnt bring there own food for babies, I always do. I was just saying that it freaks me out when I see anyone open a food packet. I always call ahead to check if somewhere is nut free and we don't go there if it isn't.

My daughter is five and is quite good at not taking food from people or touching food but she doesn't always listen.

I miss peanut butter!!!

[Saffron]

Mens Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Thanks guys, will look at that study.

>

Yes, do keep up with the peanut desensitisation study. The hope is that this research will translate to the mainstream medical community. In that case, your child would be an ideal candidate. Unfortunately, I don't think LEAP study is taking new patients, but you could check with your GP if there are other similar studies running or planned.

> Well, I wasnt saying that people shouldnt bring

> there own food for babies, I always do.

No, no, far from it! If restaurants don't make some exceptions, esp'y for young children with allergies, surely it just makes things more difficult?

> I was just

> saying that it freaks me out when I see anyone

> open a food packet. I always call ahead to check

> if somewhere is nut free and we don't go there if

> it isn't.

Also, it seems that if you can only eat food bought in the cafe, then are they legally liable for insuring it's nutfree, if they say it doesn't contain nuts? Actually, that sounds like a logistical nightmare, compared to just letting kids eat a bit of outside food if the parents are paying for food.

I like the idea soemone mentioned of making coffees/teas cheap if people order them with food. Sounds like a fair compromise.