LTN: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3

[dulwichfolk]

The is a oneoval too. There they highlight how the decision makers live in the new traffic free areas

[sally buying]

I received this on email because I once went to Community meeting and left my name.

With all the problems that are arising of street closures I am wondering how many people will be aware of this Southwark questonaire or is it just a smoke screen for them to do what ever they want and say people replied. Just how many know people about it, or will it just be lets get rid of the motor mob.

Southwark Highways department is asking all parents or carers of school-age children to respond to the new School Travel Survey. We want to know how your children get to school currently, and how that might change from September. We know there is going to be a lot of pressure on our roads and public transport network, and this will really help us judge the scale of the issue and determine what we might be able to do about it. The survey is online at www.southwark.gov.uk/schooltravel2020

Gill Kelly

Empowering Communities Programme Officer

East Central (Peckham and Nunhead)

Working from home

Mobile: 07949248558

[Rockets]

dulwichfolk Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The is a oneoval too. There they highlight how the

> decision makers live in the new traffic free areas

Ooops, this might not end well for Labour councillors - the optics are all wrong and they appear to be turning their backs on the traditional Labour voter (which cost them the last election).

[first mate]

There is the tiniest whiff of divide and rule.

[Metallic]

Let's face it, when any open comments are available for anyone to add their view, you get people who may use the road or area who live quite a distance away. So why should someone who lives in say Nunhead, have a view taken in to consideration in the big tally, of why my road should be shut off to cars? Asking people potentially Southwark-wide to say what they think about Calton Avenue is a disgrace! Thinking of the big cycling campaigns here.....

[tradingfiddle]

Just cycled through the planters on Calton Avenue and there was a van parked across them. Also saw a different van parked the same way yesterday, maybe supplied for the shops? Tried to take a photograph today but the driver clocked me turning around and drove off.

Can anything be done to stop this? It makes it as dangerous as before as can't see the junction.

[exdulwicher]

There is significant opposition across London from residents impacted by these changes. The Uber driver I was talking too lived in Brixton and he said it was a nightmare around there due to local closures and that he wished residents would set-up something like One Dulwich.

Most of the surveys being done nationwide by a variety of means (online, social media, by post) are returning an average of about 5:1 in favour of low traffic neighbourhoods. It also acknowledges that the "1" part of that are likely to be much more vocal than the "5" part so the initial impression of everyone being against it is often a case of a shouty minority.

Again, this is an average of the schemes nationwide; I've seen outliers as well - Islington were claiming 90% in favour on a survey they did although that was 10,000 posted leaflets and a response of about 350 so that upsets my data OCD.

There's a councillor in Hackney, Jon Burke (@jonburkeUK on Twitter) who's worth a follow for some good updates of their LTN and the general ideas behind it. Our own James McAsh is also on Twitter, @mcash although much less active on there. Less about traffic and LTNs.

[Metallic]

tradingfiddle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Just cycled through the planters on Calton Avenue

> and there was a van parked across them. Also saw a

> different van parked the same way yesterday, maybe

> supplied for the shops? Tried to take a photograph

> today but the driver clocked me turning around and

> drove off.

>

> Can anything be done to stop this? It makes it as

> dangerous as before as can't see the junction.

Where do you expect deliveries to take place? I imagine that a road wide closure means you could have steered round the van without any trouble? There are only bikes. A bit of patience to make your world perfect?

[dulwichfolk]

exdulwicher Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There is significant opposition across London from

> residents impacted by these changes. The Uber

> driver I was talking too lived in Brixton and he

> said it was a nightmare around there due to local

> closures and that he wished residents would set-up

> something like One Dulwich.

>

> Most of the surveys being done nationwide by a

> variety of means (online, social media, by post)

> are returning an average of about 5:1 in favour of

> low traffic neighbourhoods. It also acknowledges

> that the "1" part of that are likely to be much

> more vocal than the "5" part so the initial

> impression of everyone being against it is often a

> case of a shouty minority.

>

> Again, this is an average of the schemes

> nationwide; I've seen outliers as well - Islington

> were claiming 90% in favour on a survey they did

> although that was 10,000 posted leaflets and a

> response of about 350 so that upsets my data OCD.

>

> There's a councillor in Hackney, Jon Burke

> (@jonburkeUK on Twitter) who's worth a follow for

> some good updates of their LTN and the general

> ideas behind it. Our own James McAsh is also on

> Twitter, @mcash although much less active on

> there. Less about traffic and LTNs.

Do you have link to these 5:1 surveys?

[JohnL]

Metallic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> tradingfiddle Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Just cycled through the planters on Calton

> Avenue

> > and there was a van parked across them. Also saw

> a

> > different van parked the same way yesterday,

> maybe

> > supplied for the shops? Tried to take a

> photograph

> > today but the driver clocked me turning around

> and

> > drove off.

> >

> > Can anything be done to stop this? It makes it

> as

> > dangerous as before as can't see the junction.

>

> Where do you expect deliveries to take place? I

> imagine that a road wide closure means you could

> have steered round the van without any trouble?

> There are only bikes. A bit of patience to make

> your world perfect?

They're opening the barriers at the bottom of Rye Lane every morning (I checked at 8) I assume for deliveries but also definitely scaffolders.

[Spartacus]

On the BBC website today, there is a story about the report by the Runnymede trust into BAME risks through the covid pandemic.

BBC News - Coronavirus: Ethnic minorities 'over-exposed' to Covid-19

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53651954

Whilst I'm only extracting a small part from it for this thread it is worth reviewing.

Part of the report highlights "The survey found those from ethnic minority backgrounds were also more likely to say they had used public transport during lockdown - which could increase the chance of transmission because they are enclosed spaces."

With this in mind, does it not imply that we are all (regardless of race) actually safer commuting in our cars than on public transport as there is a lower risk of virus transmission and whilst cycling and walking is an option for those who can or want to, the blanket war in motorists could be responsible for increased levels of virus transmission in the future if people are pushed out of their cars and onto public transport ?

There is possibly a strong argument to promote increased cleaner car usage not less to help prevent future pandemics.

[Earl Aelfheah]

'war on motorists'. Pull the other one.

[nxjen]

?There is possibly a strong argument to promote increased cleaner car usage not less to help prevent future pandemics?

One major reason people use public transport you have overlooked in your haste to save Londoners from COVID-19 is that they can?t afford to run a car

[Spartacus]

nxjen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ?There is possibly a strong argument to promote

> increased cleaner car usage not less to help

> prevent future pandemics?

>

> One major reason people use public transport you

> have overlooked in your haste to save Londoners

> from COVID-19 is that they can?t afford to run a

> car

Oh I haven't overlooked it, simply if we push ever increasing numbers of people onto public transport the risks increase during this and future pandemics thus by reducing car usage are we not in danger of making things worse ?

Rah sadly whilst you don't think it is, a large number of people feel that local councils with increased parking restrictions, closing off roads and other measures are fighting a war on motorists !

[JohnL]

There is talk across the world of the 15 minute city - where you can walk or cycle to everything you need.

https://www.ft.com/content/c1a53744-90d5-4560-9e3f-17ce06aba69a

[Spartacus]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There is talk across the world of the 15 minute

> city - where you can walk or cycle to everything

> you need.

>

>

> https://www.ft.com/content/c1a53744-90d5-4560-9e3f

> -17ce06aba69a

Assuming you can easily do both of those or have limited things to carry.

Although I agree having thriving local town centers should be a goal supported by local councils as without them we will all be up the Amazon without a paddle

[Rockets]

exdulwicher Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There is significant opposition across London from

> residents impacted by these changes. The Uber

> driver I was talking too lived in Brixton and he

> said it was a nightmare around there due to local

> closures and that he wished residents would set-up

> something like One Dulwich.

>

> Most of the surveys being done nationwide by a

> variety of means (online, social media, by post)

> are returning an average of about 5:1 in favour of

> low traffic neighbourhoods. It also acknowledges

> that the "1" part of that are likely to be much

> more vocal than the "5" part so the initial

> impression of everyone being against it is often a

> case of a shouty minority.

>

> Again, this is an average of the schemes

> nationwide; I've seen outliers as well - Islington

> were claiming 90% in favour on a survey they did

> although that was 10,000 posted leaflets and a

> response of about 350 so that upsets my data OCD.

>

> There's a councillor in Hackney, Jon Burke

> (@jonburkeUK on Twitter) who's worth a follow for

> some good updates of their LTN and the general

> ideas behind it. Our own James McAsh is also on

> Twitter, @mcash although much less active on

> there. Less about traffic and LTNs.

But this is much more than a shouty minority - and in the spirit of balance, and as I am sure you will agree, there is a very vociferous shouty minority on the other side of the fence too.

The fact that OneDulwich and OneOval have appeared and are getting lots of support shows the reality of what is happening out there and it demonstrates this is now far more than a shouty minority.

You quote 5:1 but research is so very skewed to the narrative that cars are bad. Just take a look at Southwark's Street Space website - it's very difficult to post anything other than a "cars are evil" response on there. To say the council and TFL ask leading questions is probably the understatement of the century.

I think your Islington example speaks volumes.

Also, if you ask anyone "do you want a quieter street" everyone says yes because, much like Cllr McAsh canvassing around Melbourne Grove ahead of these closures, no-one ever tells them what the real impact will be.

The playing field is now being levelled by the likes of One Dulwich so everybody can have a voice - for too long too many have been ignored or positioned as a shouty minority. That's changing and the councillors and council are realising that.

[tradingfiddle]

Are you for real? Plenty of parking in front of the shops in the designated bays. Not about being patient as I was in no rush and they were perfectly able to deliver before the closure without blocking the road.

Metallic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> tradingfiddle Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Just cycled through the planters on Calton

> Avenue

> > and there was a van parked across them. Also saw

> a

> > different van parked the same way yesterday,

> maybe

> > supplied for the shops? Tried to take a

> photograph

> > today but the driver clocked me turning around

> and

> > drove off.

> >

> > Can anything be done to stop this? It makes it

> as

> > dangerous as before as can't see the junction.

>

> Where do you expect deliveries to take place? I

> imagine that a road wide closure means you could

> have steered round the van without any trouble?

> There are only bikes. A bit of patience to make

> your world perfect?

[first mate]

Of course the planters are going to be used as drop off points. Just wait until the schools get back and see whether places like Melbourne Grove planters become drop off points for parents driving children to school. I am in no way supporting either of these but both examples are the potential result of measures not properly considered but hastily introduced to tick boxes (albeit nationally driven).

[tradingfiddle]

Yes didn't think of the schools dropping off either. Could happen at Calton Avenue with parents dropping off for local schools too.

Potentially more dangerous than keeping the road open!

first mate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Of course the planters are going to be used as

> drop off points. Just wait until the schools get

> back and see whether places like Melbourne Grove

> planters become drop off points for parents

> driving children to school. I am in no way

> supporting either of these but both examples are

> the potential result of measures not properly

> considered but hastily introduced to tick boxes

> (albeit nationally driven).

[Rockets]

Interesting discussion with a cab driver today - he was saying that a some of the "Covid" road closures are being removed in East London (East Ham area) due to push back from local residents....the council there has realised they are causing more problems than solving.....

[sand12]

first mate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Of course the planters are going to be used as

> drop off points. Just wait until the schools get

> back and see whether places like Melbourne Grove

> planters become drop off points for parents

> driving children to school. I am in no way

> supporting either of these but both examples are

> the potential result of measures not properly

> considered but hastily introduced to tick boxes

> (albeit nationally driven).

This will definitely be the case unless the local councillors and council are informed of this now. I?ve seen people regularly use the parking area for the shopping parade at the junction for this purpose as well as the opposite side near the Griffin field entrance. These are mainly Hamlet and Infants school parents. The council doesn?t have the resources to send traffic officers everyday to prevent people parking for drop offs. They need traffic cameras installed to prevent the speeding through the junction as well as the illegal parking on the double yellows. This is what snarls traffic there and around many schools in the area. A dozen or so strategical placed cameras with automatic fines would be a good deterrent to often dangerous double parking and the resultant bottle necks they create. The single yellow lines are often never observed in the area. Cameras and automatic tickets are the best option, unless a CPZ is finally put in place. IMHO it should have been since the area around N. Dulwich station was put in.

I am glad to hear that cab drivers/ Uber are also avoiding this route. It has only been since Waze and Google maps and their ilk made it so easy to navigate the roads in this area that it got so bad. Coupled with all the other JIT delivery none sense of Amazon, the commercial and passenger travel in the area has gone up way beyond any original plans for the area roads and neighbourhoods. That is the crux of it for me. We are all complicit in the pollution in the city. It isn?t just the dirty, polluting car drivers, but all the deliveries we are all addicted to now. From Uber eats, to Amazon, and all the others. The volume of vehicles coming to residential neighbourhoods is also troubling.

[dulwichfolk]

All very well but the actual figures regards car/motor traffic in the dulwich area is that numbers were coming down year on year unless you used the period when roadworks were going on as per the council documents.

[tiddles]

I have been stuck in the dulwich jam with no sign of drop off or deliveries causing the snarl up. It is the queue of cars waiting to turn right at the junction. I love the way that people who live on the area are not supposed to get taxis or ubers any more...

[eddeal1]

complete waste of money....people wake up or it will be too late....please think the last time southwark council did something that was good for the people of Dulwich ?? please wake up and shout and this waste of your money.,,if you want to know how clever southwark council is please look up how many thousand properties the council has sold off in the past years ? you will be shocked...and how many millions the council has wasted??