LTN: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3

[Penguin68]

Coming in late to this but can you tell me what peer review means in an academic context since you seem to claim some knowledge in the area.

Quite by chance another poster in another thread has linked an article which refers to peer review and which sets out (in the context of the publication cited) what it's about, if this is of any help.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/what-unrefereed-preprint

[heartblock]

Yep....Remember Lancet getting into hot water for publishing before peer review, because they were ?excited? by preliminary results. It?s an important process.

[legalalien]

The council should do an audit of its delivery arrangements in my opinion. As I've said before, I've only received three or four copies of Southwark Life in the last decade, and that's supposed to be one of its main communication channels. I suspect the focus on this particular leaflet may be showing up a more general problem with "paper" communication channels. I have spotted a couple of soggy piles of undelivered Southwark Lifes in the street before now.

[AylwardS]

If you didn?t get a flyer you can register for the LTN review here https://consultations.southwark.gov.uk/environment-leisure/dulwich-review-registration-form/

They say the want to hear from everyone in the areas. Registering will mean you?ll be notified when the consultation opens and of updates.

[Rockets]

They have to do a better job of communicating with everyone on this. We are all aware of the review but many people have no clue it is going on and so will not have an opportunity to give their input. I suspect the council is more than happy with this as they know this is going to become a numbers game and if the weight of public opinion is against them then it becomes more and more difficult to justify.

It's clear that everyone who lives on one of the roads on the pulldown menus (but remember the fight many of us had to put up to have our roads added) should also receive the leaflet as a matter of course.

[Abe_froeman]

Well they are communicating it in their own way. For instance, Richard Lemming retweeted this lobby group's tweet encouraging people simply passing through the area to participate in the survey:

[legalalien]

More flyers about these closures than the London Mayoral election. Just received a new one from the Dulwich Square coalition. See attached. Probably not being delivered to all roads either...

[malumbu]

Nice leaflets.

Putting up alternative points of view is not trolling, it is debating. Dismissing alternative points of view is more akin to trolling.

[ab29]

Same here - have not received any leaflets and neither of my neighbours have.

heartblock Wrote:

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> No leaflet..no consultation....still waiting.

[mako]

'Dulwich Square' is a road junction. All those 'would you like to see more' things are surely better located in the 30 hectare park which is just 100 yards away.

[legalalien]

Hmm. Local residents claiming this is great for / designed for the local businesses, the vast majority of whom beg to differ.

First we're fixing a traffic problem that didn't really exist outside an hour a day in the morning on a specific part of Calton and Court Lane (perhaps caused by poor junction design?), and now we're fixing a "north / south parade" problem that didn't really exist (and how does said square change the north/ south thing anyway?)

And we've created a massive traffic problem on the boundary roads and a massive Village divide problem between east and west. Genius. Some Looking Glass memes are called for. If only I was more tech savvy.

[richard tudor]

Speaking with a friend he told me that his son who lives outside of london but has been coming through DV for the past 8 days has just been informed that he has been fined on every day. He had no idea you could not go north.

He said he did not see the signs and just followed the flow of traffic. When he was told told he looked and said it was impossible to see these signs unless you were looking for them.

So 8 days pay going to Southwark in fines to keep Dulwich residents in their bubble of peace.

Just how much is this scheme fleecing people?

[Rockets]

Interesting to see Dulwich Square coalition discussing emergency vehicle access - is this an admission maybe that there is a problem with no emergency vehicle access?

And on the subject of fines (this may have been posted previously) but did anyone see the headline on Southwark news: https://www.southwarknews.co.uk/news/exclusive-southwark-council-rakes-in-2-5-million-from-four-ltn-cameras-in-dulwich-and-walworth-in-first-three-months-of-issuing-fines/

22.500 fines totally ?2.5m in just over 6 weeks - how wonderfully socialist of our "socialist" council.

One hopes the council may be forced into action over their pathetic efforts (pathetic in terms of execution not money generation I hasten to add) with the cameras in Dulwich and Walworth. It makes you wonder whether the council might need some external intervention to right their sinking ship - Cllr Williams seems to have lost control of his councillors - does anyone have any confidence left in their abilities to lead and deliver on behalf of their constituents?

[spider69]

Rockets Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Interesting to see Dulwich Square coalition

> discussing emergency vehicle access - is this an

> admission maybe that there is a problem with no

> emergency vehicle access?

>

> And on the subject of fines (this may have been

> posted previously) but did anyone see the headline

> on Southwark news:

> https://www.southwarknews.co.uk/news/exclusive-sou

> thwark-council-rakes-in-2-5-million-from-four-ltn-

> cameras-in-dulwich-and-walworth-in-first-three-mon

> ths-of-issuing-fines/

>

> 22.500 fines totally ?2.5m in just over 6 weeks -

> how wonderfully socialist of our "socialist"

> council.

>

> One hopes the council may be forced into action

> over their pathetic efforts (pathetic in terms of

> execution not money generation I hasten to add)

> with the cameras in Dulwich and Walworth. It makes

> you wonder whether the council might need some

> external intervention to right their sinking ship

> - Cllr Williams seems to have lost control of his

> councillors - does anyone have any confidence left

> in their abilities to lead and deliver on behalf

> of their constituents?

No

[heartblock]

Cycling groups outside of Dulwich re-tweeting the Southwark consultation on LTNs...including Councillor Leemings - meanwhile none of my neighbours on EDG have the leaflet to inform them about the consultation online. Obviously I have alerted my close neighbours but it is Southwarks duty to engage with residents on boundary rds.

[ab29]

This doesn't make any sense - ok so I'm going to ask everyone I know to take part in the consultations, even if they've never been in Dulwich!

Abe_froeman Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Well they are communicating it in their own way.

> For instance, Richard Lemming retweeted this lobby

> group's tweet encouraging people simply passing

> through the area to participate in the survey:

> https://twitter.com/southwarkcycle/status/13740114

> 17607671815

[slarti b]

@Abe_froeman

Well they are communicating it in their own way. For instance, Richard Lemming retweeted this lobby group's tweet encouraging people simply passing tyhrough the area to participate in the survey: https://twitter.com/southwarkcycle/status/13740114

Hmmm, that link doesn't work. Maybe Cllr Leeming has had second thoughts about openly encouraging people outside the area to rig the consultation? Presumably it won't stop him, and others, doing so behind teh scenes though.

The Council will have no excuse if they don't find some way of validating responses to the forthcoming survey to separate those from the area and those form outside.

[Abe_froeman]

The tweet is still ther.

Maybe this links works better

[intexasatthe moment]

Does it really matter if there are comments from people who are not resident ? Surely if they use the affected routes to get from A to B they have a valid interest .

[bels123]

Yes I think that?s the point. I know of an A&E consultant who cycles through Dulwich to get to work but lives further afield. It?s quite reasonable to expect they will have an interest in making the route they commute each day safer.

[slarti b]

The Council has been positioning the forthcoming survey as gaining the view of local residents. If they wish to include views from those outside the area who may be affected, whether people cycling to work, patients attending Kings for appointments or bus users held up by congetsion on EDG then fine. But Southwark should clearly separate response from inside and outside the consultation area and should ask teh basis on which people are responding, as they did with the commonplace map.

People living outside the area are much less likely to know the downside or impacts of propose solution. What we need to avoid is the situation whith the phase 3 OHS consultation where Southwark Cyclists, local chapter of the LCC, publicised the survey on their web site and actively coached their respondents in how to answer while ignoring the knock-on effects of the proposals on the displacement roads.

What is still strange, though not surprising, is that C'llr Leeming prefers to encourage people outside the area to take part rather than his constituents.

[DulwichCentral]

slarti b Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The Council has been positioning the forthcoming

> survey as gaining the view of local residents. If

> they wish to include views from those outside the

> area who may be affected, whether people cycling

> to work, patients attending Kings for appointments

> or bus users held up by congetsion on EDG then

> fine. But Southwark should clearly separate

> response from inside and outside the consultation

> area and should ask teh basis on which people are

> responding, as they did with the commonplace map.

>

>

> People living outside the area are much less

> likely to know the downside or impacts of propose

> solution. What we need to avoid is the situation

> whith the phase 3 OHS consultation where Southwark

> Cyclists, local chapter of the LCC, publicised the

> survey on their web site and actively coached

> their respondents in how to answer while ignoring

> the knock-on effects of the proposals on the

> displacement roads.

>

> What is still strange, though not surprising, is

> that C'llr Leeming prefers to encourage people

> outside the area to take part rather than his

> constituents.

Bit like One Dulwich then - encouraging their supporters to sign up from as far as SE4 and SE26.

[heartblock]

Southwark ?gifts? gated roads and Village squares for the rich, encourages cycling groups outside of Dulwich to join consultation while not informing residents on boundary rds....it takes green spaces away from people with no access to gardens in the less affluent areas. Infilling ..I.e. building on green spaces and play areas on estates. If you cannot see this is socially unjust, then you make a choice not to see.

[slarti b]

Abhh Dulwich Central. Still don't understand numbers or data do you?

Look at the One Dulwich website and tell me how many supporters are in the OHS consultation area

And you keep ignoring my question why you think the exposure of the Councils secret working group is deceitful! Seems like you just like throwing insults.

[malumbu]

Thanks heavens, I thought I was the only one being groomed by the Nazis in the LCC. Us cyclists are totally brainwashed, we are generally poorly educated and of low intelligence, the ideal targets for shady groups like the LCC.

Having walked, cycled, motorcycled and driven through many of the various LTNs I have no idea about them so therefore can't give informed views and am easy prey to the LCC.

I feel a documentary exposure coming along exposing these extremists.

That was the facetious answer. The considered answer is that I make my own choices. Templates are useful, particularly for very simple issues. But I will make my own mind up.