Cost of sash windows

[JT76]

What would people expect for a ballpark figure for a full refit of a single wooden sash window - approximate dimensions of 70cm x 100cm. Have had three quotes in the region of 2k - I knew they were expensive but didn't realise they were that expensive

[madmum]

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[dulwichgirl2]

I would have thought a grand. A friend had one done in south Kensington and is used to paying top dollar for any work in the house. It was 900 including vat, two years ago though.

[Penguin68]

You do need to be specific about what is being quoted for - a replacement sash window (exactly like for like (single glazed, standard window glass), assuming e.g. sash weights are still there) will cost far less than a double glazed sealed unit with 'sexy' glass - which may require new framing and e.g. sash weights.

[KidKruger]

JT76 - that's ridiculous money.

Runcent Joinery made my box & sash window for about ?475 each incl. VAT, and they're about 1.5m x 2m. That's single-glazed, primed and ready to fit.

I fitted them myself, but it's no more than 1/2 day's work per window (and mine were pretty big), followed by a return visit perhaps to 'make good' ie.fill/plaster/prime ready for decorating.

So even if you're being quoted a grand you're being well stitched. This is bread and butter work to any decent builder, if they have trouble considering this job as otherwise they are cowboys. If it's double-glazed panels you want the only additional cost should be the extra glass cost.

Runcent Joinery do measure if you ask them (not always straightforward if you haven't done it before).

They also fit I believe. Some people on here don't rate them but for me they're great.

You may be better off getting the window made ie. you could get a firm like Runcent to come measure first (week or two to make it, if there's a queue). Then look around for someone to do a straight fit (try see if they do it/know someone ?). If the window costs say ?300-400ish, I'd be surprised if a builder willcharge more than ?300 to fit as he won't be there long. Getting the old window out is less than an hour once you've got your dust sheets down and tools out, fitting is about the same for such a small window.

[Penguin68]

Actually, KidKruger, properly sealed (e.g. gas filled) double-glazed units costs a lot more to make than 'twice the cost of the glass' - amongst other things the actually frame into which they are sealed and the process which makes them energy efficient doesn't come cheap. 'Double glazed' isn't just 2 planes of glass.

They have to be specially ordered (if you are a joiner making frames). It isn't just popping up to Walsh for 2 panes of window glass rather than one.

[KidKruger]

no-one said twice the glass cost, only you did Penguin68. sothose quotes are not mine.

I said 'additional' and I am accurate, it won't cost less to have double glazing.

i am not assuming it is 2x sheets of glass either, obviously it is sealed units they incorporate.

but i appreciate your guidance.

ETA: ...there's nothing 'special' about ordering them, they are just a commodity for which you measure, then call some geezer for a quote and a delivery date so you can work it into your costings and manufacture of the sash.

[Penguin68]

Kidruger, apologies, I had assumed that when you said 'If it's double-glazed panels you want the only additional cost should be the extra glass cost (my emphasis).' you meant that you would be paying for 2 sheets of glass, not one.

[Lowlander]

I like the idea of DIY

We've got an entire flat full of badly fitted double glazing, clearly done by a cowboy. Fortunately they left the woodwork in half decent condition and just removed the boxes.

How hard a job is it and how did you remove the old ones (i.e. how much destruction?) KidKruger?

[KidKruger]

basically i'd just internet it, youtube it, etc.

all these jobs are big and scary until you've done'em once or twice.

the money you save means it's even worth ballsing-up a couple of attempts, just to get learn how to do it right.

For the cost difference and potential complications of replacing ONLY the sashes, it may be worth gettin the whol unit made up and doing a total new refit. don't forget you can do a window at a time when doing it yourself, so you don't have loads of windows clogging-up your rooms.

[KidKruger]

to remove a box sash.

break plaster/render away, all around the box.

especially at top where there may be a couple of wood 'ears' that fit into existing wooden lintel above window.

take a wood saw and cut through the middle botom of the box, down to the masonry.

this enables you to narrow the width of the unit and ease it out of the place it's beenthe last 120 years.

it can be messy as it involves bricks, mortar, wood dust and cobwebs and shite that's collected between window and masonry.

[computedshorty]

Until a few years ago I was still making Box frames with Sliding Sashes in timber, when I fixed the Tripple box frame with six Sashes I would Fit the sash cord with one continuous length with my lead Mouse on a thin cord that I threaded over each pulley and out of the weight box then over to the opposing pulley, starting from the front, then by fastening the weight to the upper back sash this way as each weight was tied to the cord is cut and no wastage of cord until the last weight is knotted and cut.

Cant do it now lost my mouse.

[computedshorty]

/

[KidKruger]

yeah, threading a box sash window is interesting !

I picked that up from the internet and it's worked for me.

[fazer71]

?1,000 max fitted double glazed timber sash.

I got upvc sash for the rear on my flat which are excellent and were just under ?500 fitted I would say on the front put timber on the rear upvc.

Compared to timber upvc don't need painting and to clean the outside you just push a couple of bullhorns and they fold in to clean totally brilliant. Nice chrome handles and locks etc.

I've seen upvc fitted to the front of houses and they look good but only if they are all changed.

If the victorians were building today they'd use upvc..

[jimbo1964]

My Polish chaps reckon about ?1k per sq metre. For double glazed fitted.

[JT76]

-- moved topic --

[fazer71]

If the boxes are still there then you could just get the sashes and sill renewed rather than replace the whole window there's not a lot to be gained by installing double glazing it'll take 40years to recoupe the energy savings for the extra ?800 cost.

[Applespider]

Do a search on the forum for the Sash Guy. He's local and specialises in frames. He can do them single or double glazed and can repair ones that perhaps looks beyond repair. And it's a heck of a lot cheaper than you've been quoted. I got all my windows overhauled and draft proofed and one virtually rebuilt for what you've been quoted!

[JT76]

Thanks everyone. It was a complete box replacement in hard wood but I am going to see where I can get to some of the leads here

[gm99]

I have been getting quotes for new windows for the front of our typical Victorian terraced house and would say that it is very difficult to get directly comparable quotes. For 7 windows (2 quite tall bays of 3 and a further single window), wood throughout, double glazed, I have had quotes ranging from ?12k to 17k - the two more expensive from big names, the third (cheapest) from a smaller independent window fitter specialist that source their windows from Bulgaria. None are hardwood, but all use engineered softwood (notably larch) and one uses a wood called Accoya (basically a softwood that has been impregnanted with vinegar to make it rot and movement proof).

There is a world of difference between qualities of wood - even within e.g. 'redwood'. The key is a wood that is structurally sound so that you don't get structural movement, typically manifested as joints opening up. As soon as that happens there is a risk of moisture penetrating. Generally, engineered woods will be more resistant to movement than single pieces of timber - and be more expensive. Accoya is evidently about the same price as oak. I recently saw some appalling carpentry on a neighbour's windows, cracking all over the place. I bet they looked great when first installed...

There are different qualities of double glazing, and the way it is mounted in the frame can make a huge difference to longevity (seems to be to do with the edge seals on double glazed units, which can fail). The quality of paint finish can similarly be very important.

Look at guarantees/warranties. Typically window companies offer 5 years (not enough for me - suggests they don't back their products), some 10, Mumford and Wood (quite pricey) offer 30 years.

You can cut costs by e.g. choosing to have the side windows in a bay not opening. I have been told that the lead for each of these windows costs around ?200.

If you are thinking about ultra slim double glazing have a read through this thread and think again: http://forum.expertexpert.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=42

If you go for refurbished boxes and new sashes, you can get any draught proofing work costed with a VAT rate of 5% and save a few quid.

Hope that's helpful.

[DulwichDeviant]

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[Dmlt]

Fazer 40 years ago you could fill your car up for 7p it's now ?6 so applying same logic to your home bills it won't take that long to recoup the money.....

Any boxsash window bought primed and single glazed is a as different as a 1963 morris minor and a brand new ford focus, one may have origonal character but he other beats it on every other aspect. Yes you maybe able to fix the morris yourself but in this day and age there are few people who want to.

A proper new boxsash window that is double glazed should have hidden draft exclusion, be factory finished with a proper paint system, use hardwood, engineered oak (engineered softwood moves too much to use for whole window) or accoya (has a few paint reaction issues though, and movement)be fitted by a fensa or certass registered company/person,have at least a Ten year insurance backed guarantee.

If you are replacing a window in it's entirety you are breaking the law if it does not comply to energy ratings unless you have specific permission i.e. house listed, conservation area etc.

I could pay alot less for many things i own and use but usually in the long run paying less will cost more?

[fazer71]

Dmlt Wrote:

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> I could pay alot less for many things i own and

> use but usually in the long run paying less will

> cost more?

Not in this instance.

UPVC is a no brainer you'll still save the energy (heating loss) cost and on top of that you'll NEVER EVER need to pay some useless decorator to paint them every three years or risk them rotting even if they are hard wood.

Refurbishing the original sash is the cheapest the price saving on single to double glazing is very small it would take many years to recoupe the energy saving even with an average expected 5% inflation and compounding?.

Say it?s ?100 per refurb that?s a ?900 saving per sash.

On a flat with 4 front sashes that?s a saving of ?3,600.

A rough calculation from memory was it would take 40-60 years to break even. With energy price inflation at 3-6% PA. From memory?. I don?t have the spread sheet anymore.

Half that time with UPVC.

Draft proof and refurbish the single glazed units is a no brainer.

The only real benefit in going from repairable single to double glazing is no condensation on the inside.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

"UPVC is a no brainer"

But it looks naff.