Its a minefield...

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Really?! You do know you have to pay for piano lessons in school? You don?t get that free. I learnt the recorder for free for one year in school. That was my music lesson. The rest of the years in music lessons consisted of just singing. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-47485240

You appear to have a rose tinted view of the world. Denial isn?t just a river in Egypt.🙄

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Blah Blah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Lack of representative diversity is an issue in

> > many sectors, often related to class boundaries

> to

> > be fair. Middle class children tend to have

> better

> > access to instruments and school orchestras.

>

> State schools have been providing instruments and

> lessons in schools for decades.

[Blah Blah]

Here is the reality.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-47485240

[JohnL]

1980's but clarinet was free and for one year I had a bass saxophone - to much for me in the end so gave up on it- the thing was huge.

[seenbeen]

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Here is the reality.

>

> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-4748

> 5240

Music is a statutory subject on the national Curriculum until Key Stage 4 when it becomes an option. If music is not being delivered in school then that is the fault of the school and the governors.

https://www.artscouncil.org.uk/sites/default/files/download-file/ACE172%20Music%20Education%20for%20Governors%20-%20WEB.pdf

Before I went into teacher training I had to spend 2 weeks in a local primary (in Dulwich) and even the maths and science provision was appalling- no sign of music. That was 20 years ago so hopefully things have changed

[TheCat]

So for people that value language...how is 'white privelige' a constructive term? I get the concept....I know that I don't get pulled over when I drive to get bread....but why pick a term that's clearly so divisive????..

[KidKruger]

TheCat, you're gonna be getting another pasting now !

Admire your spirit, tho.

[JohnL]

Looks like it wasn't a committee - just what writings became popular in the early 80s and was just one of many different kinds of privilege discussed.

https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/the-origins-of-privilege

[TE44]

JohnL, A really good article and explaination of how priviledge is not an either/or, its an individual way of looking at many aspects of your life. It also softens the term white priviledge, recognising a racial advantage does not take away individuals relating with oppresion they have/are encountering.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

What term would ?you? prefer to be used to address the advantage that a skin colour has over others?

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So for people that value language...how is 'white

> privelige' a constructive term? I get the

> concept....I know that I don't get pulled over

> when I drive to get bread....but why pick a term

> that's clearly so divisive????..

[Earl Aelfheah]

I think most people are happy to have a conversation about race, as long as it's respectful, open and honest... Not on social media of course, that's just a shouting match, but in real life people are pretty reasonable. It's our duty to discuss it imo, to recognise the hurt that many are feeling right now and not to ignore it, or pretend that there isn't an issue.

[TheCat]

DulwichBorn&Bred Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> What term would ?you? prefer to be used to address

> the advantage that a skin colour has over others?

>

>

> TheCat Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > So for people that value language...how is

> 'white

> > privelige' a constructive term? I get the

> > concept....I know that I don't get pulled over

> > when I drive to get bread....but why pick a

> term

> > that's clearly so divisive????..

I'm not sure. But as I said, I get the concept, and I'm not denying it. But surely you can't disagree that the term 'white privelige' just gets people backs up, who might otherwise be supportive......

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Again, so what other term would you prefer? As goodness forbid the truth gets people?s backs up just like racism and inequality gets my back up.

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> DulwichBorn&Bred Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > What term would ?you? prefer to be used to

> address

> > the advantage that a skin colour has over

> others?

> >

> >

> > TheCat Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > So for people that value language...how is

> > 'white

> > > privelige' a constructive term? I get the

> > > concept....I know that I don't get pulled

> over

> > > when I drive to get bread....but why pick a

> > term

> > > that's clearly so divisive????..

>

> I'm not sure. But as I said, I get the concept,

> and I'm not denying it. But surely you can't

> disagree that the term 'white privelige' just gets

> people backs up, who might otherwise be

> supportive......

[TheCat]

again. im not sure.

but this need to be offended by any questioning of the narrative is my entire point. ive just said that i AGREE with the concept of what is called white privilege...but i dont like the moniker. but all most people see is a white man denying white privilege....

[eastdulwichavenger]

Surely you can see the parallels between what you're saying and the use of other derogatory names for POC. By denying the word itself you are using your privilege to fight against it, a privilege that other people don't have to use agaisnt names and terms that are much more offensive and detrimentral.

'White privilege' isn't a term that has come from years of oppression, quite the opposite, in fact, so instead of fighting against it, acknowledge it and use your privilege to fight for others, because by arguing against the word you're highlighting your privilege.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Thank you! You understand. The Cat offers no solutions to anything but likes to express how his/her feelings isn?t considered whilst not considering others feelings and getting offended when we tell him/her that. And this is precisely why there is a book out called ?Why I?ve stopped talking to white people about race? most thankfully listen and take things on board but the ones like The Cat are a source of frustration as he/she literally doesn?t get it. I can?t make The Cat get it.

eastdulwichavenger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Surely you can see the parallels between what

> you're saying and the use of other derogatory

> names for POC. By denying the word itself you are

> using your privilege to fight against it, a

> privilege that other people don't have to use

> agaisnt names and terms that are much more

> offensive and detrimentral.

> 'White privilege' isn't a term that has come from

> years of oppression, quite the opposite, in fact,

> so instead of fighting against it, acknowledge it

> and use your privilege to fight for others,

> because by arguing against the word you're

> highlighting your privilege.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

You gaslight. You get offended at the word ?white privilege?. I ask you for another word to replace this word, you provide no solutions aside to indicate that you find the word offensive so I tell you racism is offensive too then I?m told I?m easily offended. Gaslighting. Provide solutions otherwise what is the point in this thread? It?s a minefield because of your refusal to be absolutely honest with yourself.

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> again. im not sure.

>

> but this need to be offended by any questioning of

> the narrative is my entire point. ive just said

> that i AGREE with the concept of what is called

> white privilege...but i dont like the moniker. but

> all most people see is a white man denying white

> privilege....

[TheCat]

gaslighting huh?

im not offended. i crave debate and disagreement...thats how we improve ourselves. Yes, i dont know the alternative term...thats a whole discussion on its own. so ive said a number of times that i agree with the arguement, but all you want to do is attack me for not loving the terminology.....

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

I give up. 🤦🏽‍♀️

[TheCat]

DulwichBorn&Bred Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I give up.

> 🤦🏽‍♀️

Why? Once again....we agree on 90 percent of all this...but becuase I disagree on language...you're having a go at me? God forbid you have to debate an actual bigot....

[TheCat]

DulwichBorn&Bred Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Thank you! You understand. The Cat offers no

> solutions to anything but likes to express how

> his/her feelings isn?t considered whilst not

> considering others feelings and getting offended

> when we tell him/her that. And this is precisely

> why there is a book out called ?Why I?ve stopped

> talking to white people about race? most

> thankfully listen and take things on board but the

> ones like The Cat are a source of frustration as

> he/she literally doesn?t get it. I can?t make The

> Cat get it.

>

>

> eastdulwichavenger Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Surely you can see the parallels between what

> > you're saying and the use of other derogatory

> > names for POC. By denying the word itself you

> are

> > using your privilege to fight against it, a

> > privilege that other people don't have to use

> > agaisnt names and terms that are much more

> > offensive and detrimentral.

> > 'White privilege' isn't a term that has come

> from

> > years of oppression, quite the opposite, in

> fact,

> > so instead of fighting against it, acknowledge

> it

> > and use your privilege to fight for others,

> > because by arguing against the word you're

> > highlighting your privilege.

When people don't 'get it' it might be becuase they disagree. Not becuase they don't understand. By branding anyone who disagrees with you as needing 'education' you're displaying a lack of ability to actually engage with them and have your arguments stand up to scrutiny. I've actually read 'why I've stopped talking to white people about race'...I think the whole concept is a disgrace. This is a serious issue that needs debate and interaction, but becuase someone questions it, the author refuses to engage? Martin Luther King would be ashamed.....

[uncleglen]

White male privilege?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/07/british-education-failure-white-working-class

[Blah Blah]

Personally, I would argue that power and inequality, are equally (if not more) defined by class privilege.

[eastdulwichavenger]

This is the vibe I get from this thread

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

That is spot on!

eastdulwichavenger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This is the vibe I get from this thread

[uncleglen]

eastdulwichavenger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This is the vibe I get from this thread

That's what you get for indulging in Identity Politics