Public demonstrations

[JohnL]

Spartacus Wrote:

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> SB

> There is that element too, that can't be denied

> that the current non indigenous residents came

> from other countries including the UK and Ireland.

>

>

> Which is the crux of the paradox, they took the

> land over and would they , if asked , give it back

> ? My suspicions are not which would be exactly

> the same in America if the native Americans

> (commonly mislabeled as Indians) demanded their

> land back.

>

> Whilst people protest for equal rights, there will

> always be a point where the equal rights stop in

> favour of the majority current land owners.

In "Watchmen" which starts with the Tulsa massacre those who were treated badly get tax concessions (it's a parallel type universe).

[KidKruger]

Yes, I don't think that excursion had zero effect on the sense of entitlement of the people.

tiddles Wrote:

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> I think the blatant disregard of The govt

> recommendations by a govt advisor killed off

> people?s perceptions as to how much we needed to

> socially distance. There was a clear sea change

> after that fiasco.

[JohnL]

I sort of remember that Dominic Cumming wanted to create chaos to overthrow the rule based order and institute a new one.

Is he now rubbing his hands in glee or has it gone wrong.

[JohnL]

Anyway Google Maps has updated the position of Edwards Colston

strange it appears and disappears - how have they done that.

[uncleglen]

tiddles Wrote:

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> I think the blatant disregard of The govt

> recommendations by a govt advisor killed off

> people?s perceptions as to how much we needed to

> socially distance. There was a clear sea change

> after that fiasco.

Cummings isn't an elected MP for a start, and didn't even go near anyone else. And the biased media made little of the blatant actions by Labour MPs who broke the lockdown laws and actually did mix with other people- Stephen Kinnock MP, Tahir Ali MP (twice), Kevan Jones, and Rosie Duffield MP who, in good old Labour style went off to have a bit of nookie with a married man.

And the hypocrite Starmer laid into Dominic Cummings and did not admonish his own MPs- he was too eager to get at Boris whilst Boris was still recovering from the Wuhan virus.

Cannot understand how Starmer even got to be leader with his track record

https://medium.com/@lucynevitt/starmers-shambolic-cps-affabd38bb6d

[uncleglen]

The voice of reason

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtPfoEvNJ74

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

A Trump Supporter! Hilarious! No one made him a hero so get it right.

uncleglen Wrote:

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> The voice of reason

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtPfoEvNJ74

[JohnL]

Candace Amber Owens Farmer (born April 29, 1989) is an American conservative commentator and political activist. She is known for her pro-Trump activism ...

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

https://www.facebook.com/618074275/posts/10159064199264276/?d=n

As a doctor who has worked in covid wards for the last 3 months - I support these protests and the BLM movement wholeheartedly. Anyone who works for the NHS should do the same. I am sick to death of people who don?t even work for the NHS using us as a reason to disagree with the protest. No. Don?t you dare. ?Think of the NHS workers? is not your get out of jail free card to express your deep rooted racism.

And yes, protesting and mass gatherings are not ideal during a pandemic. But this cannot wait. It has already gone on long enough.

The racism, hardships and countless deaths that black people have faced have gone on far longer than covid - and if you are using the virus as an excuse to rebuke the protesters and the BLM movement, you are part of the problem.

Black people are 4 times more likely to die from covid. They know this. You know this. Yet they are still willing to risk their lives and go out and protest. Have you even bothered to think about why? It is because they know that racism is far more deadly than covid. And it?s about time you realised the same.

Where was your outrage when people were flocking to beaches to tan? Where was your outrage when people had VE Day parties and didn?t social distance? No one will blame these events for a second wave - which was already coming before this protest. These protesters wore face masks and social distanced the best they could but that is not enough. Some of you would rather see them stay at home. Some of you have forgotten your outrage at the murder of George Floyd already and have now focused your outrage on black people again. And you don?t even see that as a problem. This is how deep rooted your (and my) privilege is. And it needs to stop now.

Edited to state that the above are not my words, the link to the doctor is included at the top of this post.

[fishbiscuits]

DulwichBorn&Bred Wrote:

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> As a doctor who has worked in covid wards for the

> last 3 months - I support these protests and the

> BLM movement wholeheartedly.

I'm really not sure, personally. I am unequivocally in agreement with the cause, and appreciate your passionate defence of the protests. A big part of me is appreciative, thankful even for the protests. But when it comes to timeliness... we still have hundreds of Covid deaths every day. Will these protests (directly or indirectly) lead to more people getting severely ill, dying even?

TBH plenty of people were angry about crowds at the beach, sports in the park, and street parties with only a vague pretense of "social distancing". So I think accusations of hypocrisy would probably be misplaced.

Also the protesters are from varied backgrounds and ethnicities, so it's not about getting angry at black people.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

At the end of the day, there is never a good time to protest or the right way to protest but it was needed as the world is watching. Enough is enough.

[pk]

DulwichBorn&Bred Wrote:

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> At the end of the day, there is never a good time

> to protest or the right way to protest but it was

> needed as the world is watching. Enough is enough.

Agree

[yourmomma]

Well said DulwichBorn&bred.

[ianr]

For the avoidance of doubt or confusion, DulwichBorn&Bred's post of 10:43 is simply a pasted copy of a Facebook page of Kunaal Hathi. I see he's a provisonally registered doctor, which means, if I've understood my reading correctly, that he graduated this year from medical school, and that graduation was probably brought forward in time because of COVID. Normally the next stage in the arduous training process would be to start in post as a Foundation Year 1 junior doctor in August or September. Instead he's accepted the newly introduced invitations to register provisionally for a pre-Foundation year 1 position, again presumably a COVID measure. And so, rather than taking a well-earned post-qualification break, he's been immersed in all the pressure and pain of a COVID ward. All thanks and plaudits to him for that.

There are a number of aspects of his post that I take serious issue with, but I'll leave it at that.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Yes, I put his Facebook link at the beginning but thanks for clarifying.

ianr Wrote:

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> For the avoidance of doubt or confusion,

> DulwichBorn&Bred's post of 10:43 is simply a

> pasted copy of a Facebook page of Kunaal Hathi. I

> see he's a provisonally registered doctor, which

> means, if I've understood my reading correctly,

> that he graduated this year from medical school,

> and that graduation was probably brought forward

> in time because of COVID. Normally the next stage

> in the arduous training process would be to start

> in post as a Foundation Year 1 junior doctor in

> August or September. Instead he's accepted the

> newly introduced invitations to register

> provisionally for a pre-Foundation year 1

> position, again presumably a COVID measure. And

> so, rather than taking a well-earned

> post-qualification break, he's been immersed in

> all the pressure and pain of a COVID ward. All

> thanks and plaudits to him for that.

>

> There are a number of aspects of his post that I

> take serious issue with, but I'll leave it at

> that.

[JohnL]

Seems a lot of chat around on the statue, there's been controversy about the Bristol one for years without resolution - I remember it being debated 20 years ago.

The Bristol Mayor says he'll likely retrieve it from the sea in time (I guess maybe quite a while) and possibly put it in a history museum and what happened to it will be part of it's history.

What should happen to the plinth is a question going forward - maybe leave it as it is today ?.

[malumbu]

Nantes is a great place to visit (when safe), it probably has a lot of parallels with Bristol and a port and its role in facilitating the slave trade. Recognition of this historical wrong is everywhere in Nantes (without any feeling that this is tokenism or some sort of over reaction). Maybe the same in Bristol? I'm not sure.

Interesting article - although I note they haven't renamed streets associated with the slave trade. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/30/world/europe/france-nantes-slave-trade-museum-memorial.html Oh and Jimmy Savile was a great philanthropist too. I don't expect any tears would be shed if a statue commemorating him was trashed.

[Blah Blah]

The toppling of the statue in Bristol, makes sense in the context of the demonstrations.

Anger at a statue is not the same as violence towards Police and others (which is never acceptable), so I never feel too much outrage at graffiti on statues. That can always be removed easily. And to be fair, Churchill WAS a racist. Yes he was the right person for the job during WW2, but he was also responsible for the fiasco of Gallipoli, and other controversial decisions. So for some, Churchill is a mixed bag. It does not take away from WW2 to discuss that and I think we have every right to question the narrative around some of those we laud from history. It is about balance and fairness at the end of the day. The whitewashing of history is something black people have always been aware of. There are no lessons to be learned from history in doing that. How can we understand the rage of another group if we never see where that rage stems from?

On Bristol, there had been a long standing campaign to remove/ amend this statue, ignored by the local council. So very few are mourning its loss. I agree that the best place for it once retrieved, is in a museum, where the good and bad of historical figures can be considered in context. In its place, I would like to see a memorial to the slaves he exploited. That would be a powerful statement and a poignant tale of protest. One for the history books in fact :)

[KidKruger]

They should retrieve the statue, melt it down and cast a new statue of Paul Stephenson.

That would be poetic justice in the re-use of the bronze from pro slavery to pro equal rights.

That would take care of the plinth too, just reset the new statue on it.

[Spartacus]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> They should retrieve the statue, melt it down and

> cast a new statue of Paul Stephenson.

> That would be poetic justice in the re-use of the

> bronze from pro slavery to pro equal rights.

> That would take care of the plinth too, just reset

> the new statue on it.

Paul or Pamela ?

[KidKruger]

Actual, yeah Pamela.

Circa 1985.

Good spot.

[fishbiscuits]

I also kind of like the idea of putting it in a museum... lying on it's side, complete with graffiti. With an explanation of both the slave trade and the BLM movement.

Melting it down is fine too, though...

[Clutterqueen]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> The toppling of the statue in Bristol, makes sense

> in the context of the demonstrations.

>

> Anger at a statue is not the same as violence

> towards Police and others (which is never

> acceptable), so I never feel too much outrage at

> graffiti on statues. That can always be removed

> easily. And to be fair, Churchill WAS a racist.

> Yes he was the right person for the job during

> WW2, but he was also responsible for the fiasco of

> Gallipoli, and other controversial decisions. So

> for some, Churchill is a mixed bag. It does not

> take away from WW2 to discuss that and I think we

> have every right to question the narrative around

> some of those we laud from history. It is about

> balance and fairness at the end of the day. The

> whitewashing of history is something black people

> have always been aware of. There are no lessons to

> be learned from history in doing that. How can we

> understand the rage of another group if we never

> see where that rage stems from?

>

> On Bristol, there had been a long standing

> campaign to remove/ amend this statue, ignored by

> the local council. So very few are mourning its

> loss. I agree that the best place for it once

> retrieved, is in a museum, where the good and bad

> of historical figures can be considered in

> context. In its place, I would like to see a

> memorial to the slaves he exploited. That would be

> a powerful statement and a poignant tale of

> protest. One for the history books in fact :

Your post doesn't make sense.

[Blah Blah]

Nor does your response Clutterqueen.

[Blah Blah]

fishbiscuits Wrote:

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> I also kind of like the idea of putting it in a

> museum... lying on it's side, complete with

> graffiti. With an explanation of both the slave

> trade and the BLM movement.

Excellent idea!