Would you shoot a burglar

[Carter]

@LondonLogCo

Don't mean to nitpick but I don't own a rifle. I own a shotgun.

To own a rifle means a firearms license, which is the next step up.

Other than that, fine.

[LondonLogCo]

I keep my chainsaw 40+ miles away in

Kent

Just so we're clear

[Carter]

OK, so true story.

My next door neighbour saw me holding my gun in the garden, whilst I was cleaning it.

It was a sunny day.

As I am already "in the system", they were smart enough to check the address to the gun register. Even though I am doing nothing illegal, I still got a visit from Plod.

"Please don't do that. It scares the neighbours."

Bearing in mind, they are people I saw almost every other day. Has the media scared everyone so much that they would rather piss themselves at the sight of a weapon, rather than just speaking to the person. I would happily show licenses, the gun, the ammunition. Indeed, teach them how to handle a gun.

i.e. never assume a gun is unloaded. Always point the weapon away, unlock and check. Unload if necessary. Once you get past this, it's just a piece of metal.

Which is why I fully subscribe to the idea "it's not guns....etc". If you are fully taught in how to handle a weapon, and fully understand the implications of what you hold, then there is no arguement.

[Huguenot]

Here's the thing Carter, you're not just telling us a story there are you - you know that guns make people feel anxious, so you're not 'surprised' by that outcome at all. What you're actually doing is boasting about it.

Well you're a hard man Carter, with a steely eye and a big jaw - everyone is weak compared with you no?

You can 'handle' it, you know it's 'implications'.

With you there is 'no argument', it's either your way or the highway. You are a man.

Secretly you enjoyed making the neighbours scared, and getting Plod round was a thrill, especially as you set them right.

Do you read Bravo Two Zero and imagine how much better you would have been?

Ha ha ha ha ha. :D

[Alan Medic]

Carter Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> "Please don't do that. It scares the neighbours."

>

> Bearing in mind, they are people I saw almost

> every other day. Has the media scared everyone so

> much that they would rather piss themselves at the

> sight of a weapon, rather than just speaking to

> the person.

It's nothing to do with the media. It's to do with you and your gun.You may see these people every other day but they obviously don't know you well enough to know you have a gun. If I were them I would have done the same thing. You may be a nutter after all about to go on a shooting spree.

[Huguenot]

I can't quite believe someone who insists that their 'rights' to do whatever they want 'within the law' are more important than their responsibility to their neighbours not to wave anxiety inducing shotguns around in public view.

Utter self-serving vanity.

[Carter]

Wow. Just....wow.

This has decended into utter idiocy.

It has to be said that I did not, nor have not done nothing illegal. I chose to clean my legal, licensed weapon on my own private property. The same neighbours have seen me locking my gun into the safe in the boot of my car - again, something that is not legally required but something I have chosen to install.

That, apparantly, makes me -:

"Well you're a hard man Carter, with a steely eye and a big jaw - everyone is weak compared with you no?"

If I said I was training to try for the Rio 2016 shooting team, does that still make me a psycopath? A hard man with a steely jaw? A NUTTER about to go on a shooting spree?

Getting Plod round is an utter pain in the arse, because they would of been better employed going after people who WHERE breaking the law - you know, actual criminals? The muggers and such like who we read about on this forum every day. I saw my neighbour using a drill in his back garden last month - I best call the police because that can kill someone as well.

The better half - the current one who hasn't yet been slaughtered yet getting a glass of water - explained it best this morning. She said that you people are obviously so scared of personal responsibility or differences from the norm that you NEED the state to wipe your arses for you.

I am not a farmer therefore me owning a gun means I am a psyco, putting down Bravo Two Zero and dreaming of better things.

Not a competition clay shooter training to try for selection to the 2016 Olympic Team.

[red devil]

Friendly (fire) question Carter...are you a member of a gun club, and if so, do they have secure facilities for storing guns?..

[Huguenot]

Except that a responsible intelligent shotgun owner would have been aware that waving a firearm in the back garden was likely to rise anxiety levels and result in calls to plod.

Right?

So either, you're not intelligent or responsible enough to realise that, or you did it deliberately.

Shooting burglars is not 'taking responsibility' it's extrajudicial execution.

If you or your wife cannot recognise that fact, then you are not sufficiently responsible to be granted a shotgun license, nor to keep it in your house.

[Carter]

Red Devil - Yes I am, and yes they do, however I choose not to store my gun there. As already mentioned, the safes in the flat and the car EXCEED the required standards.

Plus, I try to compete as much as I can all over the country when I can, and doing the 30 mile round trip each time is simply not economical.

[LondonLogCo]

Oh dear

Thing is Carter, you've marked your own card with your previous posts & threads.

Prior to the knowledge of you owning a gun, if we'd been asked in a strawpoll " Would you be comfortable with this man owning a fire arm"

See thread/post. http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?20,921311,921324#msg-921324

I'd put my money on a "NO" vote pretty much across the board

You don't seem like someone who cares, considers or "gives a shit" how others feel. It seems no matter what, you feel you're in the right

Ever thought that you might have anger management issues

Or maybe modify your writting style. Tone it down a bit

[Carter]

I am going to print out this thread - and referenced thread - and keep it to show Plod when I renew my certificate, which is next year for those who are interested.

I can guarantee they will find it as bewildering and hilarious as I do.

[LondonLogCo]

Thing is Carter

You know & I know you'll only be renewing your licence. Hand on heart, would you really show all this to the relevant authorities, or Plod as you call them

Here's the scene:

Carter goes to renew his licence at Peckham Police Station

"Hello Plod, before I pay my ?10 have a read of this will you"

He produces all his posts and the responses on this thread

The Police officer on the desk reads them

" Oh yes Mr Carter, how hilarious. You're a perfect candidate for gun. After all we prefer premeditated gun use, not that hot headed dramatic stuff. Saves on the paperwork see "

They both laugh

" I know, what are people like eh Plod ? "

More laughter ensues

" Yeah.. Ha ha ha... yeah I know, they need shooting really "

" Ha ha haaaaa "

Carter leaves with his Gun certificate

If only eh?

No, you'll play it safe, all quite and calm. After all, you WANT that gun

Don't want Mr Angry squeezing out in all the wrong places , do we now

[Huguenot]

The principal question regarding issuing or renewing the shotgun license is whether information has come to light regarding whether ownership may be a danger to public safety or the peace, amongst which the police are asked to consider any 'intemperate' behaviour.

In much the same way as you can't make jokes about bombs in airports, I would recommend steering clear of producing this thread - as it could be interpreted as demonstration of a desire to use the shotgun to deliver capital punishment upon offenders without recourse to the legal system.

Whilst you may think it funny, they would be aware that if such an incident occur after you had produced the thread, that they would be held criminally liable for issuing the permit.

So no, I don't think they'd issue it.

[Carter]

This is premeditated -:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10219655

This is not -:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19463707

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19505432

Everything discussed on this thread falls firmly into the latter story. I fully expect Mr Ferrie to have his license renewed because, like me, he has commited no crime.

[LondonLogCo]

Jesus H

I'd not be surprised if Carter slept with his windows wide open & a ladder propped up against the sill, each & every night

[StraferJack]

Here is how mark twain dealt with burglars

http://bit.ly/zTzFEQ

[Carter]

At NO point I have expressed "a desire to use the shotgun to deliver capital punishment upon offenders" in this thread.

At NO point I have demonstrated a wish for deliberate home invasion by keeping "windows wide open & a ladder propped up against the sill, each & every night".

And I certainly haven't shown "intemperate behavior".

With regard to the referenced thread, two complete strangers decided they had the right to intervene in our relaxing afternoon outside the EDT because my fiance decided to light a cigarette. Indeed, they felt they could openly berate her for the smoke produced whilst leaving their child directly in the fumes of a bus.

Perhaps it is just me, but I would never show such hyposricy, let alone feel I have the right to admonish someone else I don't know for doing something completely legal outside, based purely on my own predudices and incomplete education. As for "Mr Angry" - I don't know where this came from as at no point were voices raised or fisticuffs used.

*Edit* love the quote "don't give a shit". This is used entirely towards the better half. She dosen't have yellow fingers, yellow teeth, rotting gums and can run 10K in 39 minutes, and beats me by a minute. And she certainly does not "stink like an ashtray". So yes, "don't give a shit" towards her smoking. */edit*

But thats just me.

I guess the political officer was on strike for more lentils the day I moved in, hence I slipped through the net.

This entire thread has decended into utter idiocy.

*Edit to add*

The original question was to ask whether "Would you shoot a burglar". Almost everyone indicated they would perform violence against intruders, regardless of method including Hugenot and LondonCoLog. If I had just said "Yup" and nothing else I would of been part of the crowd.

However, the moment when I mentioned that I do, actually, own a shotgun, then I became a target. Not part of the collective. An UNKNOWN. I have had completely unjustified insults thrown at me ranging from psycopath and inferred child killer to premeditated murderer waiting to happen. And all because I am a competition clay shooter who keeps a gun in the flat. I must be a psycopath because I am not a farmer.

There are some deeply unpleasant people on this forum. Deeply unpleasant.

"I am satisfied that this is a case where householders, faced with intruders in frightening circumstances, acted in reasonable self-defence. The law is clear that anyone who acts in good faith, using reasonable force, doing what they honestly feel is necessary to protect themselves, their families or their property, will not be prosecuted for such action."

That is what I would do. And as we can see, the law is clear.

As already mentioned, this thread has decended into utter idiocy.

[DJKillaQueen]

El Pibe Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "And that's why anything that tips the balance in

> the favour of the victim and rids society of

> another scummy thief is preferable to protecting

> the rights of a criminal to carry on without fear

> or risk of harm to himself."

>

> Pretty self evident that that means killing

> thieves is a good thing as is allowing people guns

> in their home.

> Killing an intruder is, weirdly enough

> extrajudicial.

> Sheesh. I may have extrapolated a bit but I can't

> see how I put words in your mouth.

How does tipping the balance in favour of victims equate to killing anyone? Nor does it insinuate the legalisation of firearms. If you bothered to read it properly, instead of reading what you want to read, it is a complaint about the law which extends every kind of human rights legislation to criminals. Like I say....putting words in my mouth.

If I were a supporter of firearm legalisation in the uk I would say so. I am not fyi in support of firearm legalisation. All I have questioned is the idea that crime levels rise with gun ownership. Global stats just don't support that idea. It's not a conclusive argument however, either way, which is what makes for an interesting debate.....and I can manage to have that debate with that in mind - hence feeling no need to jump on anyone who disagrees with my view.

Please don't put words in my mouth or I'll have to agree with Carter and declare the lunacy of this thread ;)

[El Pibe]

It may well have been expressed really badly but I'm afraid it only reads one way.

Anything [and we are talking guns here] that tips the balance in the favour of the victim and rids society of another scummy thief [ie kills him] is blah

if we were discussing weak sentences then the former inference would be stronger legislation and the latter longer prison sentences, but given the discussion arming victims of burglary to kill thieves is the only possible interpretation.

Having retracted that I'm glad you don't feel that way, try choosing your words more carefully in future.

[Annette Curtain]

>There are some deeply unpleasant people on this forum. Deeply unpleasant.<

Really ?

And what do you find so unpleasant. Having your views challenged, having to deal with the fact that people disagree with your whole gun stance. Having people stand up to you when you clearly like to dismiss them or shout them down. Having someone pull you up about your language and tone on your other threads. Your matter of factness challenged & the way you so easily disregard the feelings of others, should their stance not please you

Yes, it must be unpleasant but it's not wrong.

In fact I applaud it

You're a bit of a knob it would seem

A knob with a gun, who can't bear to be challenged

Bravo !

[Carter]

"Having someone pull you up about your language and tone..."

"You're a bit of a knob it would seem"

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/attachments/general-ffxiv-discussion/24908d1347072711-25th-anniversary-translation-massive-changes-way-headdesk.jpg

Bravo!

[Alan Medic]

Carter Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> However, the moment when I mentioned that I do,

> actually, own a shotgun, then I became a target.

> Not part of the collective.

I think what pissed some people off if the fact you were so amazed your neighbours got concerned that you were out in your garden with a firearm.

[Annette Curtain]

Carter

My posts are loaded with irony & anyone with a half sense of the world can grasp that

Whereas yours are just plain loaded with anger, belligerence and in this case; 12 bore shotgun cartridges

As Alan medic said :

>I think what pissed some people off if the fact you were so amazed your neighbours got concerned that you were out in your garden with a firearm<

And for that alone I think you're a prize knob

I'm wholeheartedly sure that many will agree with me on this one. I also suspect that i'm not the first to level that one at you either

(directly, not behind your back - like)

Nette

[DJKillaQueen]

'Having retracted that I'm glad you don't feel that way, try choosing your words more carefully in future.'

Still you are putting words in I haven't written. Why don't you try reading what people axctually write in future (instead of offering the pompous advice above). I assume you are reading the same language as the rest of us. Trying to have a debate with someone who rewrites what people actually write, is not for me I'm afraid, and you just make yourself look stupid El Pipe.