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At that point I will be petitioning to rename LL and EDG ?the Dulwich Village Bypass?...



Rockets Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Metallic Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > smooch Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > now there's an idea.

> > > walking thru the village this morning around

> > 11.30

> > > and the main road was completely chock full

> > > towards east dulwich grove - across the

> > junction

> > > with turney. i just don't get it? would love

> to

> > > hear what all the residents of Dulwich

> village

> > > actually feel about it.

> > >

> > > Should also add that the road was completely

> > > blocked at around 2.30 on sunday afternoon so

> > > clearly nothing to do with the school run -

> > again

> > > tailing back to the mini roundabout.

> > >

> > > some residents and businesses on east dulwich

> > > grove have already expressed their serious

> > > concern, but I suspect the council is

> unwilling

> > to

> > > actually 'hear' them. Councillor James has

> > bravely

> > > made some conciliatory noises but is not in a

> > > position to do anything.

> >

> > Everyone I know hates the plans in the Village.

>

> > And the few cyclists who actually LIVE in

> Dulwich

> > Village are probably countable on your fingers

> and

> > toes.

> >

> > I wish people would stop meddling in the life

> of

> > our community. The ruination of Lordship lane

> and

> > Grove Vale businesses, the closure of Melbourne

> > Grove, I bet there are very few people who want

> > our district to go down the drain.

>

> I think many of the pro-closure supporters in the

> Village are desperate to get the next phase of

> closures in place so traffic has to find a route

> elsewhere around the village. No doubt Cllr Newens

> and Leeming will celebrate how quiet the village

> is as the rest of us have to live with their

> displaced hell!!!! ;-)

Let?s hope those particular pieces weren?t funded from the ?750 awarded to the residents association for their street parties including the Halloween Party.. http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/documents/s87448/Appendix%201.pdf






Rockets Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I did chuckle to myself as I walked down Melbourne

> Grove today - the residents have done a great job

> decorating the street for Halloween and putting up

> the gravestones but I love how one of them is

> trying to make a point by creating a couple of

> headstones with "Rat Run" on them.....and Cllr

> Newens suggests there is a problem with trolls

> from the anti-closure lobby!!!! ;-)

>

> I wonder if the Rest in Pieces headstone is in

> fact a reference to the businesses on Melbourne

> Grove being impacted by the closures....

>

>

>


> 568787456?s=09

alice Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> R. I'm blocked from the twitter link you posted.



It's working for me...have you maybe dared to ask a question and they blocked you...that seems to be the usual pattern from the pro-closure lobby! ;-)

Rockets Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I did chuckle to myself as I walked down Melbourne

> Grove today - the residents have done a great job

> decorating the street for Halloween and putting up

> the gravestones but I love how one of them is

> trying to make a point by creating a couple of

> headstones with "Rat Run" on them.....and Cllr

> Newens suggests there is a problem with trolls

> from the anti-closure lobby!!!! ;-)

>

> I wonder if the Rest in Pieces headstone is in

> fact a reference to the businesses on Melbourne

> Grove being impacted by the closures....

>

>

>


> 568787456?s=09


This has not gone unnoticed by the businesses and I dare say it doesn't feel terribly coincidental to them given the threats to boycott them personally and on this very forum. There is one entitled 'Yule Be Next' aimed at a business. It would be understandable if someone took that personally given the context of what is happening on the road.


Tiddles, 'Shat on' does seem quite apt and yes most businesses in DV and ED bar a few are saying they are struggling since road closures.


On another note does anyone know if Southwark Spine Cycling Route is still planned to go ahead? If it does it might involve removing parking for Bellenden Road businesses, and putting permeable filters on Crystal Palace Road among othr changes.


https://www.southwark.gov.uk/transport-and-roads/active-travel/cycling/cycle-improvements?chapter=3&article


If they go ahead with Phase 4 in Peckham cars will be seeking routes through Crystal Palace Road and residential roads in Peckham where they plan to put this Southwark Spine Route.


Having had a look at the present cycle routes in Southwark - with very few east to west just like Southwark bus routes, that cycling lobbyists would be satisfied with these road closures. They don't seem to be serving them either. Surely they would like to see some proper investment in actual interlinked cycle paths, rather than short closed roads which then spit them onto busier more polluted RMR roads.


Southwark is giving them cheap as chips planters, not real routes that go anywhere, and everyone increased pollution and congestion on other roads.

I can assure you no offence was intended, in fact quite the opposite. An upside to making a Halloween walk more enjoyable for all in these rubbish times is to increase footfall along the road which should hopefully help advertise the local businesses. I?m sure there are those who will happily sit at their phones and write that it?s not enough etc but it has been weeks of planning and work by the local community for the enjoyment of all, which I am saddened to see you have chosen to view as some form of veiled threat.


FairTgirl Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Rockets Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I did chuckle to myself as I walked down

> Melbourne

> > Grove today - the residents have done a great

> job

> > decorating the street for Halloween and putting

> up

> > the gravestones but I love how one of them is

> > trying to make a point by creating a couple of

> > headstones with "Rat Run" on them.....and Cllr

> > Newens suggests there is a problem with trolls

> > from the anti-closure lobby!!!! ;-)

> >

> > I wonder if the Rest in Pieces headstone is in

> > fact a reference to the businesses on Melbourne

> > Grove being impacted by the closures....

> >

> >

> >

>


>

> > 568787456?s=09

>

> This has not gone unnoticed by the businesses and

> I dare say it doesn't feel terribly coincidental

> to them given the threats to boycott them

> personally and on this very forum. There is one

> entitled 'Yule Be Next' aimed at a business. It

> would be understandable if someone took that

> personally given the context of what is happening

> on the road.

>

> Tiddles, 'Shat on' does seem quite apt and yes

> most businesses in DV and ED bar a few are saying

> they are struggling since road closures.

>

> On another note does anyone know if Southwark

> Spine Cycling Route is still planned to go ahead?

> If it does it might involve removing parking for

> Bellenden Road businesses, and putting permeable

> filters on Crystal Palace Road among othr changes.

>

>

> https://www.southwark.gov.uk/transport-and-roads/a

> ctive-travel/cycling/cycle-improvements?chapter=3&

> article

>

> If they go ahead with Phase 4 in Peckham cars will

> be seeking routes through Crystal Palace Road and

> residential roads in Peckham where they plan to

> put this Southwark Spine Route.

>

> Having had a look at the present cycle routes in

> Southwark - with very few east to west just like

> Southwark bus routes, that cycling lobbyists would

> be satisfied with these road closures. They don't

> seem to be serving them either. Surely they would

> like to see some proper investment in actual

> interlinked cycle paths, rather than short closed

> roads which then spit them onto busier more

> polluted RMR roads.

>

> Southwark is giving them cheap as chips planters,

> not real routes that go anywhere, and everyone

> increased pollution and congestion on other roads.

Galileo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I can assure you no offence was intended, in fact

> quite the opposite. An upside to making a

> Halloween walk more enjoyable for all in these

> rubbish times is to increase footfall along the

> road which should hopefully help advertise the

> local businesses. I?m sure there are those who

> will happily sit at their phones and write that

> it?s not enough etc but it has been weeks of

> planning and work by the local community for the

> enjoyment of all, which I am saddened to see you

> have chosen to view as some form of veiled threat.

>

>

> FairTgirl Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Rockets Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > I did chuckle to myself as I walked down

> > Melbourne

> > > Grove today - the residents have done a great

> > job

> > > decorating the street for Halloween and

> putting

> > up

> > > the gravestones but I love how one of them is

> > > trying to make a point by creating a couple

> of

> > > headstones with "Rat Run" on them.....and

> Cllr

> > > Newens suggests there is a problem with

> trolls

> > > from the anti-closure lobby!!!! ;-)

> > >

> > > I wonder if the Rest in Pieces headstone is

> in

> > > fact a reference to the businesses on

> Melbourne

> > > Grove being impacted by the closures....

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>


>

> >

> > > 568787456?s=09

> >

> > This has not gone unnoticed by the businesses

> and

> > I dare say it doesn't feel terribly

> coincidental

> > to them given the threats to boycott them

> > personally and on this very forum. There is one

> > entitled 'Yule Be Next' aimed at a business. It

> > would be understandable if someone took that

> > personally given the context of what is

> happening

> > on the road.

> >

> > Tiddles, 'Shat on' does seem quite apt and yes

> > most businesses in DV and ED bar a few are

> saying

> > they are struggling since road closures.

> >

> > On another note does anyone know if Southwark

> > Spine Cycling Route is still planned to go

> ahead?

> > If it does it might involve removing parking

> for

> > Bellenden Road businesses, and putting

> permeable

> > filters on Crystal Palace Road among othr

> changes.

> >

> >

> >

> https://www.southwark.gov.uk/transport-and-roads/a

>

> >

> ctive-travel/cycling/cycle-improvements?chapter=3&

>

> > article

> >

> > If they go ahead with Phase 4 in Peckham cars

> will

> > be seeking routes through Crystal Palace Road

> and

> > residential roads in Peckham where they plan to

> > put this Southwark Spine Route.

> >

> > Having had a look at the present cycle routes

> in

> > Southwark - with very few east to west just

> like

> > Southwark bus routes, that cycling lobbyists

> would

> > be satisfied with these road closures. They

> don't

> > seem to be serving them either. Surely they

> would

> > like to see some proper investment in actual

> > interlinked cycle paths, rather than short

> closed

> > roads which then spit them onto busier more

> > polluted RMR roads.

> >

> > Southwark is giving them cheap as chips

> planters,

> > not real routes that go anywhere, and everyone

> > increased pollution and congestion on other

> roads.



I am sure no offence was meant but the Rat Run attached is a bit tone deaf considering the shops at the end of the road are struggling so much because of these closures. I appreciate what you might be trying to do but to politicise it and revel in the closures seems a little blinkered. Keep it on message; don't use it to try to deliver a message.

I agree, I walked down and there were quite a lot like that. Felt a bit rude to those in the community who have been negatively impacted by this. Not good for a ?community event? as those on east dulwich grove are some of the worst affected. I also walked down east dulwich grove and lordship lane and the traffic there was awful once again. Rockets Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Galileo Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I can assure you no offence was intended, in

> fact

> > quite the opposite. An upside to making a

> > Halloween walk more enjoyable for all in these

> > rubbish times is to increase footfall along the

> > road which should hopefully help advertise the

> > local businesses. I?m sure there are those who

> > will happily sit at their phones and write that

> > it?s not enough etc but it has been weeks of

> > planning and work by the local community for

> the

> > enjoyment of all, which I am saddened to see

> you

> > have chosen to view as some form of veiled

> threat.

> >

> >

> > FairTgirl Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > Rockets Wrote:

> > >

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> >

> > > -----

> > > > I did chuckle to myself as I walked down

> > > Melbourne

> > > > Grove today - the residents have done a

> great

> > > job

> > > > decorating the street for Halloween and

> > putting

> > > up

> > > > the gravestones but I love how one of them

> is

> > > > trying to make a point by creating a couple

> > of

> > > > headstones with "Rat Run" on them.....and

> > Cllr

> > > > Newens suggests there is a problem with

> > trolls

> > > > from the anti-closure lobby!!!! ;-)

> > > >

> > > > I wonder if the Rest in Pieces headstone is

> > in

> > > > fact a reference to the businesses on

> > Melbourne

> > > > Grove being impacted by the closures....

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>


>

> >

> > >

> > > > 568787456?s=09

> > >

> > > This has not gone unnoticed by the businesses

> > and

> > > I dare say it doesn't feel terribly

> > coincidental

> > > to them given the threats to boycott them

> > > personally and on this very forum. There is

> one

> > > entitled 'Yule Be Next' aimed at a business.

> It

> > > would be understandable if someone took that

> > > personally given the context of what is

> > happening

> > > on the road.

> > >

> > > Tiddles, 'Shat on' does seem quite apt and

> yes

> > > most businesses in DV and ED bar a few are

> > saying

> > > they are struggling since road closures.

> > >

> > > On another note does anyone know if Southwark

> > > Spine Cycling Route is still planned to go

> > ahead?

> > > If it does it might involve removing parking

> > for

> > > Bellenden Road businesses, and putting

> > permeable

> > > filters on Crystal Palace Road among othr

> > changes.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> https://www.southwark.gov.uk/transport-and-roads/a

>

> >

> > >

> >

> ctive-travel/cycling/cycle-improvements?chapter=3&

>

> >

> > > article

> > >

> > > If they go ahead with Phase 4 in Peckham cars

> > will

> > > be seeking routes through Crystal Palace Road

> > and

> > > residential roads in Peckham where they plan

> to

> > > put this Southwark Spine Route.

> > >

> > > Having had a look at the present cycle routes

> > in

> > > Southwark - with very few east to west just

> > like

> > > Southwark bus routes, that cycling lobbyists

> > would

> > > be satisfied with these road closures. They

> > don't

> > > seem to be serving them either. Surely they

> > would

> > > like to see some proper investment in actual

> > > interlinked cycle paths, rather than short

> > closed

> > > roads which then spit them onto busier more

> > > polluted RMR roads.

> > >

> > > Southwark is giving them cheap as chips

> > planters,

> > > not real routes that go anywhere, and

> everyone

> > > increased pollution and congestion on other

> > roads.

>

>

> I am sure no offence was meant but the Rat Run

> attached is a bit tone deaf considering the shops

> at the end of the road are struggling so much

> because of these closures. I appreciate what you

> might be trying to do but to politicise it and

> revel in the closures seems a little blinkered.

> Keep it on message; don't use it to try to deliver

> a message.

I liked the efforts made and hoped that more would have been involved. It looked just a bit half-hearted. A bit more welly would have brought more pedestrians down as an ?event?. As it stands, it?s good fun and welcome, just a little bit lacking. 🤷‍♂️
I went for a walk round - compared to any other streets in the area Melbourne Grove was fantastic and I?ve never seen so many people walking round the area. Residents have made a massive effort, they didn?t have to and have chosen to do something nice for the wider community. It was a shame only il mirto was open though - would have thought Big Belly?s could have done some good trade, though maybe it?s not open on Saturdays?

> The question at the end: "So who is gaining from

> this in Croydon council?" has also crossed my mind

> - who is gaining from this in Southwark council.


Conspiracy theory...


> Everyone I know hates the plans in the Village.


...and confirmation bias.

heartblock Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Calton road, no schools, houses 2-3 million, lower

> than the national average of BAME residents. A car

> park for the wealthy. I imagine those Chelsea

> Tractors, Mercs, BMWs drive down EDG...


A car park for the Alleyn's teachers actually. Most on Calton Avenue have off street parking.

Galileo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I can assure you no offence was intended, in fact

> quite the opposite. An upside to making a

> Halloween walk more enjoyable for all in these

> rubbish times is to increase footfall along the

> road which should hopefully help advertise the

> local businesses. I?m sure there are those who

> will happily sit at their phones and write that

> it?s not enough etc but it has been weeks of

> planning and work by the local community for the

> enjoyment of all, which I am saddened to see you

> have chosen to view as some form of veiled threat.

>

>

> FairTgirl Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Rockets Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > I did chuckle to myself as I walked down

> > Melbourne

> > > Grove today - the residents have done a great

> > job

> > > decorating the street for Halloween and

> putting

> > up

> > > the gravestones but I love how one of them is

> > > trying to make a point by creating a couple

> of

> > > headstones with "Rat Run" on them.....and

> Cllr

> > > Newens suggests there is a problem with

> trolls

> > > from the anti-closure lobby!!!! ;-)

> > >

> > > I wonder if the Rest in Pieces headstone is

> in

> > > fact a reference to the businesses on

> Melbourne

> > > Grove being impacted by the closures....

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>


>

> >

> > > 568787456?s=09

> >

> > This has not gone unnoticed by the businesses

> and

> > I dare say it doesn't feel terribly

> coincidental

> > to them given the threats to boycott them

> > personally and on this very forum. There is one

> > entitled 'Yule Be Next' aimed at a business. It

> > would be understandable if someone took that

> > personally given the context of what is

> happening

> > on the road.

> >

> > Tiddles, 'Shat on' does seem quite apt and yes

> > most businesses in DV and ED bar a few are

> saying

> > they are struggling since road closures.

> >

> > On another note does anyone know if Southwark

> > Spine Cycling Route is still planned to go

> ahead?

> > If it does it might involve removing parking

> for

> > Bellenden Road businesses, and putting

> permeable

> > filters on Crystal Palace Road among othr

> changes.

> >

> >

> >

> https://www.southwark.gov.uk/transport-and-roads/a

>

> >

> ctive-travel/cycling/cycle-improvements?chapter=3&

>

> > article

> >

> > If they go ahead with Phase 4 in Peckham cars

> will

> > be seeking routes through Crystal Palace Road

> and

> > residential roads in Peckham where they plan to

> > put this Southwark Spine Route.

> >

> > Having had a look at the present cycle routes

> in

> > Southwark - with very few east to west just

> like

> > Southwark bus routes, that cycling lobbyists

> would

> > be satisfied with these road closures. They

> don't

> > seem to be serving them either. Surely they

> would

> > like to see some proper investment in actual

> > interlinked cycle paths, rather than short

> closed

> > roads which then spit them onto busier more

> > polluted RMR roads.

> >

> > Southwark is giving them cheap as chips

> planters,

> > not real routes that go anywhere, and everyone

> > increased pollution and congestion on other

> roads.



If it was weeks in the planning could you not then have found the time to come up with some messages for the gravestones that were neither pointed and political and made no reference whatsover to the road closures? Many many people on the forum and passersbys and business customers picked up on it and commented on it. A family event, if it is truly for the enjoyment of all, is not the time to making points and jibes. This does not come over as supportive of business.

FTG - That's because they do not support your businesses. They prefer a quiet traffic-free precinct (in Zone 2), if it costs a few businesses they do not care.

Please don't expect support from these local residents because it's a hiding to nothing.


"This does not come over as supportive of business."

FairTgirl Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Galileo Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I can assure you no offence was intended, in

> fact

> > quite the opposite. An upside to making a

> > Halloween walk more enjoyable for all in these

> > rubbish times is to increase footfall along the

> > road which should hopefully help advertise the

> > local businesses. I?m sure there are those who

> > will happily sit at their phones and write that

> > it?s not enough etc but it has been weeks of

> > planning and work by the local community for

> the

> > enjoyment of all, which I am saddened to see

> you

> > have chosen to view as some form of veiled

> threat.

> >

> >

> > FairTgirl Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > Rockets Wrote:

> > >

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> >

> > > -----

> > > > I did chuckle to myself as I walked down

> > > Melbourne

> > > > Grove today - the residents have done a

> great

> > > job

> > > > decorating the street for Halloween and

> > putting

> > > up

> > > > the gravestones but I love how one of them

> is

> > > > trying to make a point by creating a couple

> > of

> > > > headstones with "Rat Run" on them.....and

> > Cllr

> > > > Newens suggests there is a problem with

> > trolls

> > > > from the anti-closure lobby!!!! ;-)

> > > >

> > > > I wonder if the Rest in Pieces headstone is

> > in

> > > > fact a reference to the businesses on

> > Melbourne

> > > > Grove being impacted by the closures....

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>


>

> >

> > >

> > > > 568787456?s=09

> > >

> > > This has not gone unnoticed by the businesses

> > and

> > > I dare say it doesn't feel terribly

> > coincidental

> > > to them given the threats to boycott them

> > > personally and on this very forum. There is

> one

> > > entitled 'Yule Be Next' aimed at a business.

> It

> > > would be understandable if someone took that

> > > personally given the context of what is

> > happening

> > > on the road.

> > >

> > > Tiddles, 'Shat on' does seem quite apt and

> yes

> > > most businesses in DV and ED bar a few are

> > saying

> > > they are struggling since road closures.

> > >

> > > On another note does anyone know if Southwark

> > > Spine Cycling Route is still planned to go

> > ahead?

> > > If it does it might involve removing parking

> > for

> > > Bellenden Road businesses, and putting

> > permeable

> > > filters on Crystal Palace Road among othr

> > changes.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> https://www.southwark.gov.uk/transport-and-roads/a

>

> >

> > >

> >

> ctive-travel/cycling/cycle-improvements?chapter=3&

>

> >

> > > article

> > >

> > > If they go ahead with Phase 4 in Peckham cars

> > will

> > > be seeking routes through Crystal Palace Road

> > and

> > > residential roads in Peckham where they plan

> to

> > > put this Southwark Spine Route.

> > >

> > > Having had a look at the present cycle routes

> > in

> > > Southwark - with very few east to west just

> > like

> > > Southwark bus routes, that cycling lobbyists

> > would

> > > be satisfied with these road closures. They

> > don't

> > > seem to be serving them either. Surely they

> > would

> > > like to see some proper investment in actual

> > > interlinked cycle paths, rather than short

> > closed

> > > roads which then spit them onto busier more

> > > polluted RMR roads.

> > >

> > > Southwark is giving them cheap as chips

> > planters,

> > > not real routes that go anywhere, and

> everyone

> > > increased pollution and congestion on other

> > roads.

>

>

> If it was weeks in the planning could you not then

> have found the time to come up with some messages

> for the gravestones that were neither pointed and

> political and made no reference whatsover to the

> road closures? Many many people on the forum and

> passersbys and business customers picked up on it

> and commented on it. A family event, if it is

> truly for the enjoyment of all, is not the time to

> making points and jibes. This does not come over

> as supportive of business.


FTG those tombstones are so sad. They just could not help themselves could they? Utterly tone-deaf and actually quite reflective of the attitude many of the pro-closure lobby hold towards anyone who does not agree with them. It's actually quite menacing. I do hope whomever is responsible has apologised. Politicising something that was designed to engage with the whole community is shameful.

I?d consider opposing any application to the council for neighbourhood funding for this next year. Have just shown it to someone who hasn?t been following the ltn issue and they thought the Yule one should be reported to the police.

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    • Here you are, intexasatthemoment (you seem to have been in Texas for a very long time!) We went to three of the recommended places yesterday,  as they were all in the same road (just near Wallington)  and I needed to give the car a run to avoid another slap on the wrist from my garage (and another new battery). Here's my findings. BARNES Parking We thought we would go here first as it was the earliest to close on a Sunday (3pm). There was no apparent entrance or anywhere to park. One notice said do not park on grass verge, and another one said staff cars only! Flittons was opposite but I'd already passed the entrance, so I had to drive down the road, turn round at the next available place (covered in signs saying do not park here) and park in Flittons car park! Plants Barnes  specialise in hardy perennials, so that was basically what they had, but an excellent selection, and many more unusual plants (or at least, plants you probably wouldn't find in a garden centre), eg Corydalis,  lots of different varieties of Epimediums, Trollius, some lovely Phygelius, lots of different ferns). The plants were divided into sections according to whether they needed sun or shade or could cope with both. They had a particularly good selection of  shade loving plants. There was really useful information above  each group of plants, which meant you didn't have to look at individual labels. All the plants looked in good health and  very well cared for. They don't produce a printed catalogue, but they  said their plant list was online (I haven't looked yet). I assume most of  the plants they have at any one time are when it's their flowering season (if they flower). I wasn't intending to buy anything, though was very tempted, but I'd definitely go here again once I've sorted out my overgrown garden. Other Stuff Don't think they sell pots, compost, etc. No cafe/tea room and I didn't see a loo, but Flittons is just over the road. FLITTONS  Parking Easy to park Plants Sorry, but mostly terrible. There was one section with vegetables and the rest was flowering plants. There was a general feeling of delapidation. Some of what was on display was actually dead (surely it would only take a minute to remove dead plants) and a lot of the rest was very poorly maintained, eg gone to seed, weedy, apparently unwatered, or with a lot of dead leaves. There was a notice asking for volunteers to work there, so I can only assume they can't afford to pay staff. Other stuff There was a notice to a play barn (?) saying invited people only, so I think they must host kids' parties or something. They redeemed themselves with a cosy little cafe with savoury stuff, nice cakes, iced chai and oat milk, and a loo. Also a selection of books and CDs on sale for charity. If you want an Andrews Sisters CD, you can find one here. There is a small shop with gift shop type stuff and a display of the history of Flittons, which apparently is family owned since the sixties (I think it was). I suspect that the arrival of Dobbies down the road must have greatly affected Flittons' fortunes, which is sad. DOBBIES  Parking Easy in theory once you had navigated a rather narrow entrance, but it was very busy so it took a while to find a space. Plants  Lots of plants, well maintained but I imagine their turnover is high. Lots of nice bedding plants for hanging baskets, window boxes etc  to cater for all tastes (ie some of it wasn't mine, but fine if you like those horrid little begonias (my opinion only) but they did have some nice (in my opinion) stuff as well. I was tempted but decided to buy from North Cross Road market. Fair selection of climbers, various different Clematis etc. I'd be happy to buy plants from here. The prices seemed reasonable and they were in good condition. Other stuff  It's a big garden centre with all that entails these days, so a large area selling garden furniture and storage, tools, animal collars, pots, all the usual stuff you would expect. Very helpful staff. There's a cafe which we didn't check out, charging points for electric cars, a Waitrose (no idea how big, we didn't look). Only on our way out did we see that there was a drive through "express section" for compost etc, which was annoying as I wanted compost and hadn't seen any anywhere,  but I was getting tired by that time. Just Down the Road A ten minute drive away is Wilderness Island, a nature reserve in Carshalton, which is well worth a visit. We heard eleven different kinds of bird (according to Merlin) and saw a Kingfisher flying down the tiny river!
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