Ladies or women?

[Alan Medic]

A one time frequent user of the forum, Lady Muck, changed her username to Laddy Muck. How about Laddies for either male or female?

[pablogrande]

A one time client of ours called everyone, male or female 'darling' but he called his wife 'mate' they are not together any more

[ClareC]

It's never occurred to me that the term "lady" could possibly be deemed offensive. Surely it's simply a manner of speech that fits into what is being said as demonstrated in the waiter example.

If a stranger of the female gender picked up a book in the library which my toddler dropped, I too would tell my child to thank the lady, it's simply descriptive and sounds nicer than 'woman'. I don't think I've heard any toddler use the word woman.

[????]

Thunk of all those song title's ruined by PC GONE MAD

[Alan Medic]

Asset Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I object to being referred to as a lady. The more

> I hear lady/ladies being used the more it grates

> on my sensibilities.

> I know it's scary and intimidating for some but

> seriously, get in the 21st century. I'm a WOMAN.

I take it from this then that you are not a lady.

[LadyDeliah]

I used to hate lady because of the connotations associated with it, but I now prefer to own it and stamp all over it!

What gets me het up though, is anyone declaring that such and such behaviour is not ladylike. So what! I don't want to be ladylike, so bugger off!

[northlondoner]

Asset, why is " lady " offensive ?

I'm genuinely curious as potential love interest also objects.

[Asset]

Nope, are you a lord?

I didn't actually say it was offensive merely that I objected.

I find it belittling and patronising personally.

MrBen - you could just say "follow me please".

It would appear I'm in the minority with my opinions but perhaps that's just because it is an insidious yet becoming more outdated way of referring to women and in 50 years it won't be used - unless you are actually a titled lady.

I for one do not defund it insulting to called a woman.

Now, all you little ladies, I've got stuff to do.

[Asset]

* find it

[MGolden]

I would hope that in 50 years we won't have 'titled ladies' either. Now that really is an archaic idea ;)

Asset Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Nope, are you a lord?

> I didn't actually say it was offensive merely that

> I objected.

> I find it belittling and patronising personally.

> MrBen - you could just say "follow me please".

> It would appear I'm in the minority with my

> opinions but perhaps that's just because it is an

> insidious yet becoming more outdated way of

> referring to women and in 50 years it won't be

> used - unless you are actually a titled lady.

> I for one do not defund it insulting to called a

> woman.

> Now, all you little ladies, I've got stuff to do.

[PeckhamRose]

I also hate the label thing. And when being asked if you are Mrs or Miss, but men don't have to state whether they're married because their label doesn't change.

I dislike the connotation thing. Ladies and Gentlemen is fine, men and women is fine, husband and wife is fine. Man and wife? Grrrr. You never hear Woman and Husband!

I think they should be abolished; it's class and gender nonsense.

[Otta]

You'd naturally say "hello ladies" to a group of women. "Hello women" just doesn't work, and they'd think you were being rude.

[Chillaxed]

It's a minefield out there. Opening doors, offering seats, even speaking to someone. Personally, I just go with whatever feels right (generally opening the door, offering the seat, and using 'woman' or 'lady' without conscious thought as to which is more appropriate). If I get it wrong and someone is offended, well, you can't please everybody all the time.

[RosieH]

It's not rocket science, so I don't know why people are over-complicating and refusing to understand, unless they're genuinely imbeciles.

Ladies and gentlemen is fine - it's a form of address. Otta, equally, you wouldn't say "hello men" to a group of men - it sounds ridiculous.

But as a description it's asinine. Would you say, "there's a gentleman in my department who..."? No, you'd say, "there's a man in my department". But people persist in saying "lady" in the same circumstances. Or 'lady doctor' and its ilk.

"Lady" is a loaded term - it implies gentility, refinement, delicacy - it comes with a whole set of messages that piss women off because men aren't subjected to the same set of expectations.

If in doubt, where you'd use "man" for the male equivalent, use "woman". Where you'd use "gentleman", use "lady".

[Chillaxed]

Why would anyone above imbecile level ever be in doubt? It's not rocket science.

[Otta]

"If in doubt, where you'd use "man" for the male equivalent, use "woman". Where you'd use "gentleman", use "lady"."

Well quite, but then I guess some people would use these words where others wouldn't.

Have to say though I don't really see the big deal. If people don't like it, then that's up to them I'm not questioning it. It just seems that there are worse things to get het up about.

[*Bob*]

There are also plenty of women and ladies who like to be girls.

It's so confusing. Such strange creatures...

Incidentally, rocket science isn't particularly difficult to understand. Not for a man, anyway.

[Ted Max]

Sleazy 70s cock-wielders were always described as Ladies' Men. Tom of Finland types unaware of their latent homo-eroticism were Men's Men. Burt Reynolds was both.

I'm not sure what a Women's Man would be.

[*Bob*]

Similar to a Mummy's Boy.. only with more sex.

[Ted Max]

"He's a real Women's Man, that one. He's always hanging round the feminist bookshop displaying his credentials, the fecking creep."

[*Bob*]

That's a Womyn's Man you're thinking of there.

[Ted Max]

Thanks. Just for completion's sake:

Mummy's Boys = Madonna-Whore complex and growing collection of screengrabs of Viccy Coren off of "Only Connect" saved to password-protected file on home computer.

Plz now to be carrying on with high-minded gender studies debate.

[El Pibe]

Viccy Coren is the signifier is it huh?

Damn.

What does a Katy "I Can Cook" Ashworth fetish say about me?

[Alan Medic]

RosieH Wrote:

> "Lady" is a loaded term - it implies gentility,

> refinement, delicacy - it comes with a whole set

> of messages that piss women off because men aren't

> subjected to the same set of expectations.

'Loaded term' my elbo. Only in your head. Strange creatures as *Bob* said.

[*Bob*]

*lights pipe and closes library door*