Judging people by what they eat...

[Pickle]

The breast vs formula thread got me thinking... Even though I have a baby and am still at that part of my life, my focus these days is really on my two school age children. When you watch kids in the playground you cannot tell how they were fed as babies, and I like to think I'm open minded on the milk debate.

HOWEVER...

If I see a parent/carer walking a child to school, telling them to hurry up and finish their breakfast, and "breakfast" is a Mars bar, I will judge that person. A 5 year old being collected from school and handed a large packet of crisps, chocolate and a bottle of sugary drink will lead me to being the one giving the death stare.

Is there ever a way giving a school aged child chocolate for breakfast can be justified? (other than Coco Pops, which personally I wouldn't feed my kids before a day at school).

I feel sorry for the teachers that then have to attempt to get that child to sit and learn for the day!

To me this is far more controversial than what form of milk a baby is given - at least whether it be breast or formula it contains vitamins and minerals essential for a child to grow and thrive!

[LondonMix]

Hmm, in general I am with you on this one, particularly the pack of crisps and sugary drink part if it was a recurring thing. Breakfast is tougher though. While I wouldn't do it, a lot of my friends are Southern European and a slice of chocolate cake for breakfast is totally normal there and the kids seem fine!

It's weird but I would probably be more concerned if an English or American was doing it rather than people from other countries as breakfast habits vary so much culturally.

[Pickle]

Agreed, cultural differences aside.

Chocolate cake for breakfast is totally acceptable for parents ;-)

[Lochie]

I do actually incentivise my 3 yr old son to do stuff he wouldn't normally do with 'treats'. On some days he refuses to go to nursery and so I manage to get him in the car seat if I bribe him with some of the more healthy type sweets(yes hardly the same as crisps but its still not great at 7am in the morning!!!). Also where do you draw the line and how do you judge? Every day my son eats a banana and choc chip pastry for breakfast - am sure the pastry has as much sugar as some of the notoriously bad stuff. I try and balance any treats with fruit and veg but its really hard, or maybe I am just a soft touch and give in too easily.

Food is probably the biggest bug bear guilt-wise in my life as a mum. Its a battle EVERY day to get my son to try new stuff. I probably make it worse by letting him have some of the really tasty bad stuff but likewise I really want my kids to know that things like mars bars and fizzy drinks are actually ok (in moderation). One thing I've really got into now is getting my son to help prepare the adults evening meal by pealing onions, helping to clean the veg etc so he at least gets an interest in food and then hopefully ONE DAY he might actually be prepared to eat the stuff with green bits in (god forbid)

But yes in answer to your question - mars, crisps, coke on a daily basis for breakfast probably not a good idea!

[LondonMix]

I tend to think of myself as a pretty healthy eater but upon reflection the first thing I ate this morning was a few pink marshmallows :/

[LondonMix]

Lochie, everyone with a picky eater does this. And really pick eaters will go without eating anything the whole day (trust me I know) so it's not just being a soft touch!

[midivydale]

I used to see a girl with her young daughter where i toped up my oyster before work and she used to say

"go on darlin pick ur brekkie" and the girl would take her pick from the crisps boxes, usually prawn.

Did i judge? Yes- I must admit i did.

[oimissus]

judging and the death stare seem pretty harsh! These are snapshots of peoples' lives, you have no idea what else is going on and until you do you have to reserve judgement - easier said than done, of course. Maybe the mars bar was a one-off bribe to get a dithering child going. Maybe the crisps were promised as a treat for something or other. If you saw these things happening to the same children, every day, for a term - yes, there's probably a problem - but almost certainly that problem will be greater than the food these children are being given to eat.

But, I agree that in comparison to breast milk or formula this has a far greater impact on a child's development and well-being - in fact, there IS no comparison - a baby exclusively fed formula is not nutrionally devoid, a child exclusively fed crap is.

[guringi]

Haha first I was mocker now a picki picking for trouble controlable etc what you do what do you call Angels he! NO

[duchessofdulwich]

in france and spain chocolate milk is the norm at breakfast for children ?

[sillywoman]

Chocolate brioche & pain au choc are a regular feature in our breakfasts, and coco pops can feature too if I'm honest. It's only a part of our breakfasts though.

I guess we all try to do our best for our children; my best is a banana, her best is a Mars bar - I know that a banana has more nutrients and is better for your teeth, she doesn't. It doesn't make me a good Mum and her not. I think it's human nature to judge our practice against that of others - and vice versa - it's how we learn and find our place in the world isn't it?

[LondonMix]

Duchess if that question is for me then no, not chocolate milk. When I was in high school I spent a summer living with a host family in Spain. For school age kids (including primary age) it was totally normal to have a slice of cake (including chocolate cake) or a pastry with chocolate or chocolate biscuits. Always very small portions though.

[crystal7]

I'm with Lochie! I have a very fussy 3.5 year old who often refuses to eat anything at all for breakfast. I'm a teacher and I know the impact no breakfast can have on learning but I can't force her to eat! At the moment on the days I work she can have breakfast a nursery, if we're at home though I often bribe her to eat her cereal with the promise of a choc button or 2 or a choc chip brioche. Dreading her starting school as there won't be time to coax her each morning. I love food and will eat anything, had visions of having a child who devoured lentils and oily fish. Hoping she grows out of it! Baby boy loves to eat which makes me feel a bit less guilty though there is time for him to turn! To return to the op's point, I too would judge but perhaps not quite so quickly as I once would have!

[Saffron]

oimissus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> judging and the death stare seem pretty harsh!

> These are snapshots of peoples' lives, you have no

> idea what else is going on and until you do you

> have to reserve judgement - easier said than done,

> of course. Maybe the mars bar was a one-off bribe

> to get a dithering child going. Maybe the crisps

> were promised as a treat for something or other.

> If you saw these things happening to the same

> children, every day, for a term - yes, there's

> probably a problem - but almost certainly that

> problem will be greater than the food these

> children are being given to eat.

>

>

I agree about it being a snapshot of people's lives. Sometimes I catch myself starting to judge, then I remind myself not to do so. It's human nature.

On a tangent to that, how do you deal with people spreading disinformation about food? I have a friend who freaks out if her son has any sugar because thinks it makes children hyper etc. She also thinks msg is dangerous. Since I haven't read any conclusive evidence that either is the case, I'd prefer her not to make these statements in front of MY child!

I think a diet of fresh food that is low in sugar and msg (both are naturally occuring, btw) is a good thing, but I don't have a freak out if I think there's added sugar/msg in something someone else cooked. The same friend once refused to allow her son dessert at our house, after we'd all eaten dinner together. And on another occasion, she tried to tell my husband not to use gravy granules b/c they contain msg (ours didn't), and then she didn't let her son have any gravy on his roast dinner!!

I do value her friendship for other reasons, but needless to say we don't have her round to dinner anymore. In fact I avoid any mealtimes with her, if I can help it. It can make playdates tricky.

[LondonMix]

There are studies illustrating that MSG is safe. If she's American it will be a battle though as there is a widespread view that it makes you feel ill in the US. If she's aware of the studies there is nothing you can do. Some people believe things as a matter of faith (akin to religious belief) and you can't change their minds!

[Pickle]

I just wanted to add that in no way do I mean this to apply to people giving their kids a treat etc, and chocolate buttons are definitely used in my house as a bribe/reward. I think that's normal.

Unfortunately the breakfast one is a child that I pass every morning, so it's not just a one off. And I've had a child over for lunch who refused to eat anything, telling me that "mum will bring my special food for me later" - the special food was crisps :-(

Please be assured I am slightly tongue in cheek with my death stare reference! I internalise it in proper quasi-British fashion ;-)

[midivydale]

Dito, i saw this girl every morning for two years. I guess part of me felt sorry for the little girl perhaps in the same way others felt sorry for my bottlefed son ;)

I agree though wholeheartedly omissus, it is not in mine or anyones place to judge.

I can see myself going down the bribe route too :) it started with the dummy really. Oh dear

Also it is highly cultural what is deemed healthy. I have had several intense discussion with my mother in law regarding the nutritional value of deep fried chicken...

[Curmudgeon]

I try not to judge. It's not my place. It's not yours either

I know people who are medically advised to get calories into small children no matter how - cream, oils, chocolate etc.

I have a friend with a severely autistic child who has a severely restricted diet who would also throw violent tantrums in public that makes her look like a bad parent and onlookers judge

That's beside the point though. It's not my job to judge

[Saffron]

LondonMix Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There are studies illustrating that MSG is safe.

> If she's American it will be a battle though as

> there is a widespread view that it makes you feel

> ill in the US. If she's aware of the studies

> there is nothing you can do. Some people believe

> things as a matter of faith (akin to religious

> belief) and you can't change their minds!

She's not American, just a bit of a food freak (sorry, don't mean that in a nasty way, but can't think of anything else to accurately describe what borders on an unhealthy obsession with what she views as 'healthy' food).

[LondonMix]

Sounds familiar. I (like a lot of women) have struggled with food and body image issues- I still do but much less so. One phase of this took the shape of an obsession with being "healthy". This might not be the case for her but I would continue to avoid having your kids spend time around her during meal times. Even if its more benign I'm always nervous of the impact any kind of food obsession will have on little ones.

[buggie]

Try to avoid judge-y pants, but do find it completely unavoidable at work sometimes - the amount of kids we've had collected from school having been sick/feeling ill who have stopped off at McDonalds en route for a takeaway - so the waiting room (and med staff needing their lunch!)can share the smell :-S

Saying that, Bugglet does sometimes *appear* to have a fruit shoot, but it is actually watered down within a inch of its life (but because it comes in the bottle she thinks it's much nicer!).

[GCOakley]

being from a latin american family I can confirm it is perfectly normal to have chocolate milk and chocolate in many different forms for breakfast. adults as well will have hot chocolate instead of coffee as it wakes you up just the same. for me, it's not normal to have hot chocolate in the evening and i never give it to my children then as i find it keeps them awake....

all things in moderation i'm sure.....my cousins' mum banned sugar from the house and my cousins confessed how at a young age they used to take the little sugar packets from cafes, dilute in a bowl with water, and keep in a hidden place behind the toilet to go and sip from on the sly!

[Pickle]

I remember smuggling a packet of jelly crystals to school one day, aged about 8 - lots of kids were doing it and we would sit and eat them from the packet. We were caught by the school dental nurse who told our parents, but I remember my sweet toothed Dad finding it quite funny (Mum, not so much at the time, but admits now that jelly crystals were a better option than drugs).

Hot chocolate, pain au chocolate, those things are fine in moderation, of course. Mars Bars are, in my opinion, a different matter. If I was going to feed my kids a chocolate bar for breakfast I'd at least make sure they finished it before they left the house ;-)

[Otta]

I wouldn't judge any adult for what they eat, God knows I like fried chicken and kebabs too much to even consider judging anyone else.

I buy my older one buttons sometimes, as pure bribery. I know it's not particularly good, but there are far worse things I could do for her health, so I just figure why not. She has no sweets though, and only drinks water, milk and occasional juice, and I hope to keep to that for as long as possible... (which probably won't be long at all once she's in school proper).

As far as I'm concerned, they generally have good healthy meals, so the occasional chips or chocolate won't do too much harm.

[lucyA1308]

Chocolate brioche are regular breakfasts in our house, as are muffins / pain au chocolate/ or other pastry type. sometimes my 2 yr old asks for ham - well they eat ham and cheese for breckie in Germany, so why not?

The poor wee girl who is just given a mars bar on the way to school, I don't think mars bars are nice at any time of day, and certainly not a meal substitute, but I do try not to judge. I would hate to think that people were judging me in passing, for all the things I might or might not have done.