Jump to content

Recommended Posts

No that's not accurate DC - not all sectors operate on Bank Holidays, not because of unions but because they are Bank Holidays.

This thread is about Boxing Day strikes (which are a piss-take, 3rd year in a row), it's not contesting the general benefit of unions to the British worker.

I can understand DC's desire to redress the perceived imbalance against unions on here, but a fairer way to put it would be that there needs to be a working balance between productivity and reward.


The favored mantra of union supporters - that everyone would be much better off and have longer holidays if they had a union is a misapprehension.


A business only survives because it can produce goods and services that meet customer expectations at a price they feel is appropriate.


It's ridiculous to assume that crucifying a few 'fat cats' or having a good union negotiation is going to increase salaries or holidays and perks in any meaningful way - it simply lowers productivity or quality and drives up the price for the customer.


When the price exceeds a customer's willingness to pay, they stop buying, and everyone loses their jobs.


This was the reality of Britain in the 70s - a country bankrupted by the greed and avarice of the unions.


The reality is that if the LU was a normal business it would have gone bankrupt years ago


The LU's unions have managed to make extraordinary demands not because their union is clever, but because the LU is so important to the capital's infrastructure the government has had to subsidize it from taxpayers.


The taxpayer currently funds the LU over ?300m a year.


The reality is that the outcome of this round of strikes is just to take more money from taxpayers.


The striking drivers are taking this cash as tax directly from the pockets of people who work more hours than them, for less money and fewer holidays with no travel perks.


That's why the LU drivers have no sympathy - not because unions are great, but because this union operates outside the market realities and holds taxpayers to ransom.


Public sector is a bullshit argument for union achievements.

Incidentally, holiday and working time rights were not the product of the unions, and it does a massive disservice to 19th century philanthropists like Lord Shaftesbury along with Quaker, Anglican and Methodist religious movements to claim they were.


For the majority of rights we have today, thank the churches.


That's not to say that unions have not been able to make concessions in the present day - however, at 43 days holiday on 35 hour weeks, the LU unions are getting perilously close to making demands that their members should be paid by harder working and lower salaried taxpayers for NOT working.


Lost their way and lost their sympathy? Yes.

Now the tube train cleaners are at it:


"It is these same staff who have played a key role in keeping services clean and safe who are now forced again by their employers to take action for a living wage and recognition of their efforts," Bob Crow said.


Love the '..forced again by their employers..' bit.

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Incidentally, holiday and working time rights were

> not the product of the unions, and it does a

> massive disservice to 19th century philanthropists

> like Lord Shaftesbury along with Quaker, Anglican

> and Methodist religious movements to claim they

> were.

>

> For the majority of rights we have today, thank

> the churches.


Poppycock. Trade Unions are directly responsible for or were a fundamental pressure in achieving:


Two-day weekends

Eight-hour working days

Maternity leave

Retirement ages

Occupational health and safety

Workplace pensions

Paid holidays

Equality laws

The right not to be sacked because you got married, had a baby, or became ill (strange how they're seen as similar things)

Pay increases

The minimum wage

Collective bargaining

The right for the working classes to organise themselves

A standard of living above that of 1850s Britain

Presumably they also invented motherhood & apple pie.


I don't have time to research but I'm with Hugenot in that much of enlightened employment practice was non conformist church led - and as a "once upon a time Quaker" proud to have been part of that tradition.

I'm sorry DC, but that's union propaganda.


Whilst unions may have helped disperse ideas, the first firm to intoduce most of those elements was Cadbury during the 1850s.


They recognized that a healthy, secure, well educated workforce whose remuneration was in line with productivity was the recipe for corporate success. As one of the most successful corporations in British history this had a greater impact on business practice than the workers.


Notably, Cadbury didn't have work councils until 1918 and unions until 1969.


What they did have was Quaker ethical beliefs.


Unions may claim to have helped negotiate improved conditions with employers, but they're rewriting history if they reckon most of those things were their ideas.

The rights we enjoy today that DC mentions were fought for by a mixture of working people and organisations (which did indeed include churches) but also trade unions.


Yes Cadburys a Titus Salt may have built houses for their workers. Not because they were mere altruistic nice guys, but because they were enliightened capitalists - a happy healthy workforce works harder in your mill or factory, making you richer.


You need a reality check, if you think these rights had little or nothing to do with the trade unions - by which I mean not union leaders, but the ordinary men and women who made up the membership.


Also KidKruger - the cleaning staff for LU like many cleaning staff are on absolutley crap wages. And quite rightly are figting for a better deal.

I was on crap wages when I was a cleaner for 2 years too, heaven knows why cleaning jobs didn't pay as much as other, more qualified jobs, never did understand that.

If you want a better deal you strive for a better job, not use blackmail. If the LU cleaning jobs are paid less than other cleaning jobs (say, in other sectors) then prove your point by going to work there - LU will soon get the idea.

To strike over BH days shows less spine and more of a leaning to blackmail.

StraferJack Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Not supporting the strike, but Fark me plenty of

> people painting it as a very attractive job

>

> Why aren't more of us applying? Serious question


Probably because a lot of us have academic qualifications or specific industry experience that enable more lucrative or rewarding careers. But I can see how becoming a tube driver could be an attractive option for some people (and it's nowhere near as menial as a lot of people think).

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> StraferJack Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Not supporting the strike, but Fark me plenty of

> > people painting it as a very attractive job

> > Why aren't more of us applying? Serious question

>

> Probably because a lot of us have academic

> qualifications or specific industry experience

> that enable more lucrative or rewarding careers.

> But I can see how becoming a tube driver could be

> an attractive option for some people (and it's

> nowhere near as menial as a lot of people think).


I would seriously consider it if they opened them up to the public. Always looking for a good career change (nothing like a good mid-life crisis) and, frankly, it looks like easy money.

That raises the depressing possibility that the purpose of many people's employment is not to be unemployed - a sure sign of a long-term economy with deeply serious problems. I remember the thread on here about Southwark street cleaners and someone suggested that we shouldn't clear up rubbish from the streets ourselves if it were bad, as that might put the street cleaners out of work.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Latest Discussions

    • Where did I say he did a good job? Yup and Corbyn was very close to Len McCluskey and funded by Unite wasn't he...they're all as bad as each other... Labour have to purge their party of the far-left - they're a disaster. Allan Johnson summed it up so well on election night in 2019....  
    • Thank you for the detailed advise @trinidad It is definitely damage we are concerned about. I don’t think Evri would agree to pay the bill to fix our gate or letter box if they were to be damaged as a result of their delivery drivers helper. Our doorbell can be heard from outside when rung so we don’t quite believe the aggressive simultaneous door/letter box banging is necessary. It can be quite a shock it is done very aggressively.  I’ll definitely action the steps you’ve kindly provided along with a phone call tomorrow. I do sympathise with the role drivers have and how busy they are, which is why we tried communicating directly with her but sadly we haven’t succeeded 
    • What outcome would you like? Disciplinary action? Not to have the driver back? Retraining? I know there is alot of pressure on drivers to deliver within a set day. if he slams the gate, is it evidence he is causing damage, or is the noise a irritant to yourself? You could put a sign up or buy a signing asking to close the gate gentle???? can you hear the door bell from the door? he might be ringing, not hearing and therefore knocking. In trhe notes section of the be livery page, there is a note section, although there is not 100 per cent these notes would be read as these drivers are constantly rushing.  I did a google search for you, i found this and you can try the envri website Contact Us | Evri   To complain to Evri, you can follow these steps: Contact Customer Service: Call Evri's customer service at 0330 808 5456 for assistance with your complaint.    1 Write a Letter: Address your complaint to Capitol House, 1 Capitol Close, Morley, Leeds, West Yorkshire, LS27 0WH.    1 Use the Official Website: Visit the Evri complaints page on their official website for detailed instructions on how to submit a complaint.    2 Email or Call for Specific Issues: For issues like missing or damaged parcels, you can email or call 0800 988 8888, which is free to call.    1 These methods will help you effectively communicate your concerns to Evri.   My driver is called anthony, he is brilliant to be honest. I cant fault him.
    • When I have more time and energy, I will look up the actual number of votes cast for each party in that election, rather than the number of seats won. I'm interested to see that you apparently  think that  Boris Johnson did a good job of "leading the country through Covid." Is your memory really that short? I won't stoop to calling Johnson and his cronies names in the way that you seem to think is appropriate for left wing politicians. At least the left wing politicians have some semblance of morals and a concern for people who aren't in some over privileged inner circle and/or raking in money for themselves on the back of an epidemic. I'm not going to open a can of worms on here  by commenting on the disgraceful so called "purge". 
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...