Ethical Vegetarianism

[Huguenot]

Well it's kinda like sex scandals and the Tories - nobody's bothered if a liberal gets tied up in a sex scandal because they never strutted around claiming they were holier than everyone else.

It's only worth talking about if it's a Tory who's spent most of their career harping on about family values.

If you don't eat meat no worries, but if you start sporting your badge proudly and refuse to eat from kitchen crockery that might have been breathed on by a ham sandwich then you're setting yourself up for a fall.

[BrandNewGuy]

I can honestly say that a vanishingly small percentage of vegetarians I know are like that. Yet in my experience most vegetarians have to tolerate the "Well why are you wearing leather shoes?" haranguings from time to time. As I said before, it's baffling.

[Huguenot]

Well I guess a lot of that is simply to do with interest isn't it? If you take a high profile morally conflicted position then people are bound to ask questions.

I'd do the same if it was a Wiccan. ;-)

[malumbu]

Heifer whines could be human cries

Closer comes the screaming knife

This beautiful creature must die

This beautiful creature must die

A death for no reason

And death for no reason is MURDER

And the flesh you so fancifully fry

Is not succulent, tasty or kind

It's death for no reason

And death for no reason is MURDER

And the calf that you carve with a smile

Is MURDER

And the turkey you festively slice

Is MURDER

Do you know how animals die ?

Kitchen aromas aren't very homely

It's not "comforting", cheery or kind

It's sizzling blood and the unholy stench

Of MURDER

It's not "natural", "normal" or kind

The flesh you so fancifully fry

The meat in your mouth

As you savour the flavour

Of MURDER

[Huguenot]

Well there you go - there's always the question about whether vegetarianism is rooted in rational value judgements.

[BrandNewGuy]

Why is being a vegetarian "high profile"?

[Cassius]

I don't claim proudly to be a vegetarian, I just say that I'd rather not eat meat thank you very much. This does not make me better, smarter or morally superior to anyone else. I really enjoyed Colin Spencer's "The Hererics Feast - The History of Vegetarianism" until the last chapter where the self-satisfied, self-righteous tone got right on my w*** - in fact it was almost enough to make me eat a bacon sarnie. Do what you feel is right for you and let everyone else get on with it.

[KidKruger]

BNG - Huge isn't saying that being a veggie is automatically high profile. He is saying that if a veggie takes a "high profile morally conflicted position " then he's naturally gonna get stick / questions.

Whereas someone who takes Cassius' position obviously won't.

[BrandNewGuy]

That's as may be but, as I suggested, just telling someone that you're vegetarian is often enough to provoke questions about leather shoes, milk, inhaling insects etc. Bizarre and, to be old-fashioned for a moment, rude.

[KidKruger]

Well that's just ignorance isn't it ??

Just as you can get silly comments if you say you don't drink (why? What's wrong?), play guitar. (Ooh when will you be on x-factor ?), or listen to Leo Sayer (what you listen to that crap for ?).

though the last one is maybe not that ignorant..

[aquarius moon]

Vegetarians choose not to eat meat,

Some choose to eat fish,

Some choose to eat dairy,

Some choose not to wear leather.

It's all about individual choices & even if you only do one of the above, it's still helping.

And meat eaters can also help in other ways.

Why kill mice when you can buy humane alternatives to remove them?

Why not remove a bee/wasp/bluebottle with a glass, instead of swotting it?

Why not remove a snail from the pavement to safety instead of treading on it?

Think about it?

Will it really hurt you that much to be kinder to animals?

[KidKruger]

Can vegetarians can also help in these 'other ways' too ?

I don't see caring about mice, bees and snails as being something automatically done by vegetarians, but off the radar of meat eaters.

In fact those 'other things' are irrelevant to whatever a person eats, they are just little moral decisions that anyone can choose to acknowledge. And it's entirely off the wall to assert that only meat eaters need this 'guidance'.

Aquarius, it does sound like you're still lecturing to meat eaters, in the hope they'll elevate themselves to a level of worthiness approaching your own.

[aquarius moon]

The reason I confined this to meat eaters is because veggies/ animal lovers probably do this already, so wouldn't need to be prompted. I would just like to reach people who have never thought of this before.

[red devil]

aquarius moon Wrote:

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> Why not remove a snail from the pavement to safety

> instead of treading on it?

If you can train snails not to eat my plants, we could have a deal...

[KidKruger]

I think it's a huge assumption and, in my experience, not accurate.

It's precisely this holier-than-thou standpoint which will alienate you. This "meat eaters need moral guidance from vegetarians" (on areas OTHER than diet !) really is top drawer BS.

[Help-Ma-Boab]

Bluebottles are no friend of mine. Let one in once, turned my back and there were thousands of them. This was before Facebook.

[aquarius moon]

red devil Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> aquarius moon Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Why not remove a snail from the pavement to

> safety

> > instead of treading on it?

>

> If you can train snails not to eat my plants, we

> could have a deal...

Plants are probably actually here to feed snails. As they are living creatures & need to eat.

So why not share?

Live & let live !

[red devil]

aquarius moon Wrote:

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> Plants are probably actually here to feed snails.

> As they are living creatures & need to eat.

Couldn't agree more, so do I...Les escargots et les frites sont sur moi!

[Annette Curtain]

Are we talking vegetarianism or Buddhism ?

Or a bit of both

I'm a meat eater

I wear leather shoes

My cats kill mice/rats

I save pollinators

I don't tread on snails, but throw them into the park

I grow herbs and veg

How do I score ?

[AbDabs]

aquarius moon Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> red devil Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > aquarius moon Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> >

> > > Why not remove a snail from the pavement to

> > safety

> > > instead of treading on it?

> >

> > If you can train snails not to eat my plants,

> we

> > could have a deal...

>

>

> Plants are probably actually here to feed snails.

> As they are living creatures & need to eat.

>

> So why not share?

>

> Live & let live !

Um, where do you buy your vegetables? I'm an avid carnivore so I guess I don't care as much if someone's been nibbling the lettuces (that I've been growing in my garden!). I'm guessing that the average farmer growing veg for the urban vegetarian is trying to maximise his/her crop as there isn't a lot of land for a heck of a lot of people, so even if they're seriously wildlife friendly, that just means that they're using lots of organic slug killers rather than (nasty?) chemical* ones.

Snails are only here because there is something to eat and nothing else has killed them, just like us I suppose.

Annette - you do know that snails know the way home, don't you?

*Factory made chemicals, rather than all the natural chemical combinations that we encounter in daily life - like you, me, the sea, the air etc

[right-clicking]

I have not eaten meat for 35 years but I still eat fish, so I guess I have the label "pescatarian"!!

Its a lifestyle choice and anyone who abstains from eating dead animals is doing themselves, the planet and the animal itself a favour!

Limited resources, lack of affordable supply and increased demand will have a lot of people if not stopping at least cutting down.

Livestock has the biggest impact on global warming! Methane has a significantly increased effect compared to CO2. Kilo for kilo it's also at least 5X less productive then veg.

Let alone the amount of dubious chemicals to make the polystyrene wrapped end product more look more inviting UGH!!

Just as worrying is the all year round veg and fruit, flown in from all over the planet, robbing the host grower food and water from their market. So now I suppose we should all eat season and local?

I wear leather as it's a by-product from the meat production. Looks lovely and wears well!!

[malumbu]

I choose not to eat meat, poultry and fish. I do not label myself as vegetarian, and only use this when necessary for convenience. I set my own rules and eat what I wish. I avoid all these nonsense arguments, and simply quote Stephen Morrissey as this is an easy way out of 25 years of people questioning me unecessary.

I don't do labels, as said, but the only true vegetarians are vegans which is a bloody difficult life choice.

But if you choose to justify eating meat, as some of you seem to want to do, kill it, and eat everything edible. Sweetmeats, brains, tripe, the whole lot.

But you can't sing this as you can 'and death for no reason is murder'

[aquarius moon]

Annette Curtain Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Are we talking vegetarianism or Buddhism ?

>

> Or a bit of both

>

> I'm a meat eater

>

> I wear leather shoes

>

> My cats kill mice/rats

>

> I save pollinators

>

> I don't tread on snails, but throw them into the

> park

>

> I grow herbs and veg

>

>

> How do I score ?

You score 1/10 for not treading on snails.

Hopefully by next year you will do better.

[Huguenot]

Murder is specifically killing a human being - I think even you malumbu would recognize that being unable to distinguish between a human being and a whelk is bordering on mental illness ;-)

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Is noone else concerned that h-m-b seems to have a dead body in his sitting room?