Loft Extensions

[Vikki O]

Hi

I was looking into this a year or so ago but then life took over... has anyone in SE22 had or know anyone who has had a loft extension on a London (butterfly) roof?

I am aware there can be issues with planning permission but conversions with this type of roof are apparently now much more common so ideally want to know if it's been done, who used, how long and how much.

Thanks

[malumbu]

Never heard of a butterfly roof, so Googled it. Tell us more about your wants and desires.

Most loft extensions round my way (1930s) are ugly, with owners maximising their space. There are even ones in semi's done at similar times and probably by the same company (Econolofts) where they have used different designs for what looks like the same outcome.

From my understanding loft extensions are done

(a) because they are cheaper than other extensions

(b) easier planning (mind you this lot would happily pave over paradise and put up a parking lot)

© because there isn't no room for another extension.

Anyway I've digressed and probably upset half of the readership.

Tell us more about your situation.

[Huguenot]

You never really responded to any of the enquiries last time around.

What kind of house are you thinking of putting a butterfly roof extension on? Surely not an ED Victorian terrace?

[Chillaxed]

H - I think she wants to convert an exisitng buterfly roof into a loft.

[LondonMix]

H, there are some houses with what could be called a butterfly roof on Crystal Palace road (and probably elsewhere). I've mostly seen them on "natural" 3 storey houses in the area. Do a search on Southwark's planning portal to see if one had been done on your street.

You'd be better off speaking to a builder who can give you a very rough quote but typically the cost to do a loft conversion on a roof that's not suitable for conversion (for whatever reason) is the standard costs of the conversion + the costs of an entirely new roof. If you'd be allowed to do this is another question. Most likely if there was precedent as I am sure you are aware.

Might'n it be easier to do an loft extension over the outrigger if there is sufficient height with a dormer to install the stairs?

[Jeremy]

I am quite certain that you wouldn't be allowed to build above the height of the existing roof.

You might be able to fill in the centre dip of the "V", and then lower the ceiling of the top floor to create enough height. But it wouldn't fall under permitted development, and I'm not sure how likely it would be to get approval.

[red devil]

What Jeremy said, if it can't be done under Permitted Development, then highly unlikely that the planners would pass such a proposal.

I don't think it's a coincidence that a road like Nutfield Road, from memory, hasn't got any precedent.

Personally I think it would destroy the streetscape...

http://images.zoopla.co.uk/fe938c4d7eb1232d35da9085e475a747e42e4598_645_430.jpg

[Jeremy]

red devil Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Personally I think it would destroy the

> streetscape...

Exactly. And if by some miracle you managed to get it through planning, your neighbours would probably want to kill you!

[appers]

I'm sorry to say that Southwark are fairly prohibitive about this. I know from direct experience of trying (and failing) to get permission to convert our butterfly roof into habitable space. All of our neighbours offered supporting letters for the plan but the planner still said "no", citing borough policy.

Check out page 28 and onwards in their planning policy document:

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/download/4358/part_2_pages_79-156

[red devil]

appers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> All of our neighbours offered

> supporting letters for the plan but the planner

> still said "no", citing borough policy.

Letters of support from neighbours carry little weight, afterall, in 5-10 years they may well have moved house.

Planners are dispassionate and will take the long term view of what's best for the area in accordance wuth their policy...

[Huguenot]

Vikki O never responds, because she doesn't really care ;)

[acresser]

We're in ED and were hoping to do the same thing - I've had a bit of a walk around to see if there was a precedent - the only one I could find was in Choumert Rd SE15 there are four of them being done - not exactly ED but still Southwark and pretty close!

[first mate]

Loft conversions on old terraces can have a massive impact on your neighbour's light. Most people get a loft conversion for the extra room and the lovely light, airy feel. It seems slightly ironic that in gaining your light space you may be taking from your neighbours.

[DulwichDeviant]

DELETED

[Jeremy]

Three problems - basements are much more expensive, much darker, and add less value.

[MrsTeaTime]

I've been thinking about this as well VickiO. Extending a pitch V to a habitable space I've also seen referred to as getting a mansard roof. There are actually 2 houses on Nutfield that have them. One's more discreet than the other but I've not noticed them before I started out to look which must say something as I do tend to look around when I'm out and about.

Good luck with your searches. Would be great if you let us know how the planning process goes. Lots of recent refusals for mansards on the southwark planning website which is disheartening but there is definitely precedent all over. One can only hope the right discreet respectful design would pass muster. Several of the refusals I read had not been in pre planning discussion.

[Vikki O]

Thanks so much for replying to this -I had no idea anyone responded as had no notifications...! It seems to be a massive pain, I'll check out your link, thanks for replying!

[Vikki O]

Hi Mrs Teamtime

Yes I have seen the Nutfield loft extensions also but very disheartening to know lots of refusals from Southwark. I think they are one of the most discreet type of loft extensions

It's still only a pipedream at this stage but i'd love to know if you take it further. I thought nobody had replied to the message hence only picking all these up now

Thanks!

[Vikki O]

Yes chillaxed - you are right. Mansard extensions onto a London roof are probably one of the least imposing there is. Also doesn't affect neighbours at all (obvs discounting the 8 weeks of builders hell1)

[Vikki O]

Hi Malumbu

Sorry for delay on this -had no notifications anyone replied! The London roof is in a V so you can build into your existing loft space and up to the exisiting height of outside side brick work. Not imposing from the front or the back and no neighbourly light issues too.

Still researching, getting ideas and quotes, seems to be about the ?40k mark which is a lot but still cheaper than moving to a 2 bed in ED!

[alice]

BUTTERFLY ROOFS

In some terraces the historic butterfly roof pattern survives unaltered.

In such cases, roof extensions will normally be unacceptable.

However, if the terrace has been altered and includes other roof extensions, a mansard extension may be acceptable but the "V" shaped parapet wall should be retained.

Gap between two terraces.

Mansard with butterfly parapet retained at rear. http://www3.westminster.gov.uk/spgs/publications/Roof%20guide.pdf p21

[Vikki O]

Thanks Alice!

[trevone64]

selcom services honor oak v clever can do all lofts 02086906970 ask for Simon or Sylvie

[Jakido]

Does anyone know if Southwark's policy is still the same on conversion of 'London' / butterfly roofs?

[Eilidh]

Hey all, this is a really interesting thread. We've got a proposal in with planning at the moment to convert our butterfly roof. Following pre-planning advice (where they said it basically wouldn't ever happen because of the v, being in an unbroken line of butterfly roofs and seeing the structure from the street) we went back to the drawing board. We now have a proposal that can't be seen from the street, doesn't rise above parapet, doesn't destroy the v and isn't too big. Because various dormers have been put on the back of some of the houses, the look has already been spoilt. Now the only sticking point is the existing roof structure. We've been told if we can show some examples of successful conversions - especially in rows of London roofs, we MIGHT be in with a chance. Possibly. Does anyone know of anyone who has had success? I'll look at the suggested Nutfield road, choumert road and crystal palace road, thanks!