The Budget

[fish]

It's that time again folks. Yes, it looks like the ordinary working person has been thumped, yet again, with the full force of this Government's left hook. As David Cameron pointed out, it was the Prime Minister pulling the Chancellor's strings and it is he, Gordon Brown, who has created this econmic mess. As for an extra ?50 in fuel payments, for the over 60's (?100 more if you're over 80 - if the majority don't freeze to death before this age), b......'s! But it's the sheer arrogance of these out-of-touch morons that really gets my goat up. These leeches with their guaranteed gold-plated pensions, courtesy of the hard pressed tax payer, need to be kicked into touch and come and live in the real world.

[david_carnell]

Well, thank you for that rational, well though-out, even-handed piece of analysis.

Next time....don't bother eh?

[Maximay]

Erm... am I in the right place? I could have sworn this was a public forum where people were entitled to voice "their own opinions" which obviously fish is obviously doing, if his opinion upset you that much why bother posting? let alone reading it.

[david_carnell]

Because it doesn't say anything...if you want to post at least make it sensible and reasoned rather than ranting and raving. It's not his/her opinion I necessarily disagree with just the method.

[fish]

Maximay Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Erm... am I in the right place? I could have sworn

> this was a public forum where people were entitled

> to voice "their own opinions" which obviously fish

> is obviously doing, if his opinion upset you that

> much why bother posting? let alone reading it.

Thank you. When you're, forever, living on the bread line and finding it really hard to keep a roof over your head, pay your bills, keep warm and - heaven forbid - eat, it does tend to make you a little irrational. Blimey, you'd think the Chancellor and the P.M., would have better things to do than get on to the E.D., Forum?

[KalamityKel]

Mayb we could just address the title of the thread "The Budget" instead of arguing over nothing?

What's the latest deal?

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Would somebody pls save me the hassle of listening to a boring man boringly give a budget. Just the things that will affect me will do: petrol, booze, fags. What's the low down?

[mockney piers]

Nice one DC. I'm sick and tired of people saying "ooh all these little hitlers saying what I can and can't say".

Short of outright slander, libel or a crass personal attack, noone tries to stop anone saying anything.

But unfocussed, spitleflecked rants with no purpose other than some cathartic unloading of pent up aggression rather sets it self up to a rhetort of "can't you say something useful".

I'm sure there's a thread somewhere specifically for that. If not, I'll set one up.

As it goes, if you tease out the rhetoric from Fish's post, she's saying

I don't think Alistair Darling is really the Chancellor, I think Brown is holding onto the reigns of economic policy.

I don't think an extra ?50 annually towards pensioners' fuel bills (?100 for the over 80s) is doing enough to prevent the winter crises faced by the elderly each winter.

I think politicians live in an ivory tower.

None of which is so very contentious is it.

[*Bob*]

Absolutely nothing of interest or note whatsoever.

But - on a personal note - if I ever hear anyone on television or radio ever use the phrase 'gas guzzling' again, I'm going to find them, hold them down and fart in their face until they promise never, ever to say it again.

[Maximay]

david_carnell Wrote:

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> Because it doesn't say anything...if you want to

> post at least make it sensible and reasoned rather

> than ranting and raving. It's not his/her opinion

> I necessarily disagree with just the method.

Its a forum for crying out loud! you don't have to objectively decipher and analyse everything you post/read on here, you are allowed to just rant (as a lot of people do) sometimes, and he/she should'nt be chastised for doing so.

[david_carnell]

Ok fine. Let me expand:

"the ordinary working person has been thumped, yet again" - really? Basic rate of income tax is down, so if you're a low earner you'll pay less.

"it is he, Gordon Brown, who has created this econmic mess" - again, really? Would that the global economic downturn out of the control of a single government? Or would it be the current credit crunch related to sub-prime mortgages in the USA? Let me know.

"As for an extra ?50 in fuel payments...bollocks" - well I'm sure any OAP will be glad to know you're opposed to extra fuel allowances. They were intriduced by this government btw - before then you got nothing. Add the reason fuel bills are increasing aside from worldwide oil prices (over which we have no control)? Privatisation of the utility companies who are devoted to making profit for their shareholders rather than than lowering customers prices.

"These leeches with their guaranteed gold-plated pensions" - oh puuurlease. A backbench MP received a little over ?60k, not an astronomical sum considering their job security is only as good as the latest opinion poll.

This isn't an amazing, giveaway budget, mainly due to global economic uncertainty, but I have a feeling that even if it was you'd find room for complaint.

[KalamityKel]

...

[david_carnell]

Maximay Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> david_carnell Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Because it doesn't say anything...if you want

> to

> > post at least make it sensible and reasoned

> rather

> > than ranting and raving. It's not his/her

> opinion

> > I necessarily disagree with just the method.

>

>

> Its a forum for crying out loud! you don't have to

> objectively decipher and analyse everything you

> post/read on here, you are allowed to just rant

> (as a lot of people do) sometimes, and he/she

> should'nt be chastised for doing so.

But it is a thread entitled "The Budget" so I'd expect some sort of dissection of the issues rather than an uniformed whinge. If you want to do that go to the BBC's Have Your Say.

And for those of you interested in the headlines:

Petrol - frozen till October

Beer - up 4p a pint

Wine - up 14p a bottle

Spirits - up 55p a bottle

Fags - up 11p a packet

[macroban]

> Basic rate of income tax is down, so if you're a low earner you'll pay less.

As demonstrated by the removal of the 10% income tax band for low earners.

[SeanMacGabhann]

David_Carnell is on FIRE today - and I agree with every word he sayeth

sorry maximay but

we are allowed to do many things - don't mean we should. And besides by your logic, people have every right to rant/chastise anyone else - it's a public forum after all innit?

But here's the thing - its a public forum and your opinions/rants will be read by others. How do you want to come across? Or do you not care? If you don't care then why get upset if people pull you up? If you do care then maybe a modicum of restraint/thought/logic/reason would all help get your point across far better than simply pointing out that this is a public forum

[david_carnell]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> David_Carnell is on FIRE today - and I agree with

> every word he sayeth

:-$ *blushes*

[KalamityKel]

::o I'm so wiv ya! *feels surprised*

[fish]

macroban Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> > Basic rate of income tax is down, so if you're a

> low earner you'll pay less.

>

> As demonstrated by the removal of the 10% income

> tax band for low earners.

Some of us are gonna be a lot worse off, because of this and those O.A.P's, like my mum, have to be ever so grateful for the extra ?50 towards fuel bills, especially as the cost of electricity and gas has been hiked up so much that she's been wrapped around a blanket most of this winter. If it's a choice of earning a salary of ?60,000 (even if it's only for one term) and living off a single state pension, I'll take the ?60,00 - plus expenses and other perks that come with the job.

[macroban]

>> As demonstrated by the removal of the 10% income

>> tax band for low earners.

Some of us are gonna be a lot worse off, because of this

Quite so, but Mr Carnell didn't notice.

[KalamityKel]

Again, I'm having a blonde moment... wot classifies a low earner?

[david_carnell]

I agree that fuel bills are high, but as I said before, this isn't the fault of the government (granted they are at fault for a lot - but not this). The blame lies with the utility companies who increase prices when oil and gas rise on international markets and then fail to lower their prices when oil and gas become cheaper.

If, as I presume you are saying, that the ?50/?100 grant is not sufficient, would you be willing to pay more tax to fund an increase or would you like to see a reduction in public spending elsewhere?

[SeanMacGabhann]

removing the 10% bracket was a Bad Thing - but it didn't happen in this budget did it?

I thought we were debating this budget and the impact thereof?

[macroban]

Mr Carnell wrote:

> Basic rate of income tax is down, so if you're a low earner you'll pay less.

Selective criticism, Mr MacGabhann?

[mockney piers]

"would you like to see a reduction in public spending elsewhere?"

Pulling troops out of Iraq, and phased from Afghanistan.

Not wasting any more money on ID cards.

Stop the ?12bn NHS IT project, it's a miserable failure, stop now after only ?3 billion before we chuck any more good money at bad (andersen, fujitsu et al).

Next time have an IT strategy for the NHS, not an "IT Strategy".

Don't renew Trident, we are, after all, signed up to the NPT.

[SeanMacGabhann]

sorry macroban - some elucidation required

if the 10% bracket was removed in an earlier budget (and I could be wrong on that to be fair) then those people lumped into the higher bracket have just had some relief if the basic rate has been reduced

The quickest of googles (so again, possibly wrong) shows for 07/08

Taxable Band Allowances 2007-08 (?)

Starting rate 10% 0 - 2,230

Basic rate 22% 2,231 - 34,600

Higher rate 40% Over 34,600