Night flights consultation out

[Medley]

Covers Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted...

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/night-flights-consultation

[eco79]

Wow! I've got half a brain, but responding to this consultation requires detailed reading of an enormously wordy document, in order to answer such fantastically specific questions such as....

"Do the dispensation guidelines still adequately reflect current operational issues?"

What? Who cares? Can you just make my baby sleep longer than 4.45am by sorting out your planes?

[Sue]

eco79 Wrote:

>

> What? Who cares? Can you just make my baby sleep

> longer than 4.45am by sorting out your planes?

xxxxxxx

Well said :)

[James Barber]

The consultation is very clearly designed to deter normal people from responding.

Please do respond and don't be deterred.

The more that respond the clearer the message that night flights should not occur over London.

[edcam]

Alternatively you could just stop worrying about it.

[skylorikeet]

James, is there another consultation aimed at ordinary residents? I have filled in this survey but it took quite a while and involved much referring back to the consultation document and its appendices and a lot of the questions I still couldn't answer. There wasn't really anywhere to discuss the pros and cons for ordinary Londoners and the consultation document seemed to concentrate on people living within the immediate vicinity of Heathrow.

[Medley]

eco79 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Wow! I've got half a brain, but responding to this

> consultation requires detailed reading of an

> enormously wordy document, in order to answer such

> fantastically specific questions such as....

>

> "Do the dispensation guidelines still adequately

> reflect current operational issues?"

>

> What? Who cares? Can you just make my baby sleep

> longer than 4.45am by sorting out your planes?

And lo there is the sound of the nail being squarely hit on the head!

[geh]

94 page document and 64 pages of appendices. Not exactly public facing is it DoT?

[SplendidLikePeckham]

It's not exactly a light read, but please if you are bothered by flights at 4.45am (and yes I know many don't hear them/think those who moan are Nimbys/reckon we should move out of London if we don't like it etc etc) then please respond in some way. We've had a bit of a respite recently with wind blowing in from the east, but looks like they'll be back in a day or so.

As I see it you don't have to go through each point one by one, but simply sum up your feelings/frustrations on the matter, taking on board some of the suggestions raised. The more respondents from this part of London, the more likely the D o T is to take notice - incredibly because of the bizarre way decibels are averaged out over a day - aircraft noise isn't officially regarded as a nuisance here!

Whilst it's extremely unlikely that pre 6am flights are going to be scrapped, what could make a real difference to us would be a switch to easterly preference in the morning, which is mooted. That would mean a big reduction in the number of days on which flights arrive over us/South London, and more days when they arrive from the west. I think this would be logical and fair - planes arriving that way overfly far fewer people than those arriving over London, the Dept of Transport admit as much.

Quite honestly I find it bizarre that easterly preference doesn't operate at that time already - and I would urge others to support the idea....

[Medley]

I don't get this easterly landing stuff (much as I'd like it to happen, for exactly the reason SLP gives above). I thought they had to land into the wind for safety? See below.

From http://www.heathrowairport.com/static/Heathrow_Noise/Downloads/PDF/Arrivals11.pdf

For safety reasons, aircraft must take off and land into the wind. Most of the time at Heathrow, the wind comes from the west. This is known as a westerly wind. Therefore, because aircraft must land into the wind, they will usually arrive from the east (that is over London). However, when the wind is coming from the east (an easterly wind), aircraft will arrive from the west (that is over Windsor).

[SplendidLikePeckham]

If the wind is over 5 knots, the plane will land into it. The preference element kicks in if there's no wind, a cross wind or a wind under 5 knots. Westerly preference (which applies now) means landing over london (and us!) is the default. Easterly preference would change that. It wouldn't rid us of early morning arrivals entirely, but there would be more days (if there were light winds, no wind etc) when we wouldn't get them

[Burbage]

geh Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> 94 page document and 64 pages of appendices. Not

> exactly public facing is it DoT?

No. And I don't think it's supposed to be. The following extracts, three selected from the consultation, the other to give some wider context, should demonstrate exactly how this consultation has been designed. To spare the Administrator any awkwardness, I make no further comment, save that careful reading is needed, even of these tiny fragments.

"in relation to the impact on children, the evidence is inconclusive. Daytime noise exposure may have cognitive effects (particularly on reading) and chronic noise may affect children?s stress levels, blood pressure and mental health"- Night flying restrictions at Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted consultation document, 2013

"Whilst there is evidence of aircraft noise causing cognitive impairment in children the science is not considered mature enough to monetise those effects at this time."- ERCD Report 1209, ?Proposed methodology for estimating the cost of sleep disturbance from aircraft noise?, 22 January 2013

"There is a growing body of literature on the impact of aircraft noise on children?s health. Across the literature the evidence for the effects of noise exposure on child health is strongest for cognitive effects (particularly reading). Some studies have found that chronically noise exposed children have raised levels of stress, increased blood pressure and mental health effects; however there is still insufficient data to provide unequivocal evidence of such effects"- ERCD Report 1208, ?Aircraft noise, sleep disturbance and health effects: a review?, 22 January 2013

"Aircraft noise has detrimental effects on learning, memory and reading in children. This conclusion is further strengthened by noting that more than twenty studies have shown detrimental effects of noise on children's reading and memory, and there is no study to the contrary."- Overview of the World Health Organization Workshop on Aircraft Noise and Health, 2008

[jrpfinch]

Couple of points:

Doesn't landing from the east mean take off to the west?

I'd like to make sure night flights, if there are any, are heavily taxed to compensate for the disruption.

[Huguenot]

I'm not sure that's helpful is it Burbage?

As the report states, there is insufficient evidence to draw any conclusion.

Secondly, even if it concluded that high noise levels impact upon children there is no immediate actionable solution regarding Heathrow because of capacity and cost issues.

You could use it to argue that any new airports be built in low population areas, but in general they are anyway.

[treehugger]

I can't believe that the noise levels over East Dulwich are sufficent to cause "raised levels of stress, increased blood pressure and mental health effects" in children.

[davidh]

zzzzzzzzzzz. this thread is a perfect way to nod ff