Parking in front of driveway - no dropped curb

[sfmrs]

Does anyone know the law of parking in front of a drive/front garden that does not have a dropped curb?

[ponderwoman]

As far as I know it is OK to park in front of someones 'driveway' if there isn't a dropped kerb. A council official called when I parked my car on a non dropped kerb driveway to say that it couldn't be used as a regular driveway as damage to the pavement would occur. You could put your car there if it was a one off.

Having parked my car there once again to charge the battery I had to accept that I was blocked in by someone parking on the road.

I beleive it cost over ?1000 for a dropped kerb to be installed, but for this the council remove the paving slabs and install a deep hardcore base and replace the surface with drivway pavers which will not crack, and cut and replace the kerbstones.

It would be nice to not have cracked and uneven pavements(I was careful how I drove so as not to crack the pavement myself)Especially as I had a very unpleasant night in Kings with concussion from a head injury after tripping on a broken pavement.

As a response to KidKruger-I wouldn't personally ever block anyones access, but there is a risk that not everyone has the same viewpoint, especially in an area under parking pressure.

[KidKruger]

It's probably legal to do so but a bit discourteous if its obvious that the front area of the house is being used as a drive / parking area ?

Even if there was a dropped curb you may still be able to argue you can park in front of it if there's no white-painted line indicating 'dropped-kerb', but again, that'd be a pretty ignorant thing to do.

[ruffers]

Some discussion here might help - http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?20,449655

[kings dream]

people have to pay to have a droped pavement outside there homes therefore i think you will find you have every right to park leagally there front garden space is not regeisted as off road paking but a garden they have only made it so they can drive onto it i think local councils would confirm this also

[tiddles]

with you kidkruger. there is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law.

[Townleygreen]

Totally agree with Kidkruger's comment!

(It's probably legal to do so but a bit discourteous if its obvious that the front area of the house is being used as a drive / parking area ?

Even if there was a dropped curb you may still be able to argue you can park in front of it if there's no white-painted line indicating 'dropped-kerb', but again, that'd be a pretty ignorant thing to do.)

[KidKruger]

So, smfrs, what's the reason for the question ?!

Are you parking / tempted to park in front of someone's drive - or - is somebody doing it to you ?

Hmmm, well ? Yes well, hmmmm, eh what ???

[realm]

Have a look on southwark's web site which gives all the codes for parking offences (link below) this shows that it is an offence to park in front of a dropped kerb , but there is no offence about parking in front of a drive way without a dropped kerb.

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/471/parking_enforcement_and_fines/457/penalty_charge_codes/3

[DJKillaQueen]

I think if someone turns their front garden into parking space but doesn't pay for the required amendments to be made to the public highway to access that space as such, then people are perfectly free to park there. Not really discourteous imo because the purchase of a property is not also the purchase of the public highway immediately outside it (unless indicated).

[stacker285]

I had a run in with a relatively new neighbour over this issue. They are chosing to use their front garden as a driveway (which is fair enough), but if people parked in front of their house (when car was not in the drive/garden), they would leave notes on the car window, or in my case, come out and confront me and ask me to move. Out of courtesy, I wouldn't park there generally, but i would've had to park in a different road and when I could see a perfectly good space two houses down from mine, I didn't see why I should. It all got a bit silly and over emotional on my part, if I'm honest, but I'm pleased I spoke up as i've not seen any notes on cars since. They had applied to have a dropped kerb, but the council declined due to it being a major bus route (or something).

[KidKruger]

No. The dropped kerb simply makes it easier to move the car from / to the drive.

It does not indicate any more a right of way than the absence of a dropped kerb.

So, if there's no white line painted by the drop-kerb it's down to whether you can see someone uses their drive or not.

The fact that you can see they're using their drive makes your decision to park there belligerent if their car is not there and bloody belligerent if you park there whilst their car IS in their drive.

No-one purchases the highway outside their property, it's not for sale.

[Applespider]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think if someone turns their front garden into

> parking space but doesn't pay for the required

> amendments to be made to the public highway to

> access that space as such, then people are

> perfectly free to park there.

As mentioned above, it's not always because they don't want to pay for a dropped kerb. We applied for one but can't have it because there are speed bumps too close to where the dropped kerb would be so it would be a hazard apparently. The fact that currently people park across our 'drive' and across the speed bump now (which is a hazard) is irrelevant.

It's one of those things. I don't have a car so not really affected. But if there are other spaces available, it would always seem sensible to not block in someone's car - and if there was really no choice, to leave a note on their windscreen so that if they need to get out, they can contact you.

[Siduhe]

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> No. The dropped kerb simply makes it easier to

> move the car from / to the drive.

> It does not indicate any more a right of way than

> the absence of a dropped kerb.

> So, if there's no white line painted by the

> drop-kerb it's down to whether you can see someone

> uses their drive or not.

KK, I looked this up while back for someone on here. It is the drop kerb which is key and it is a PCN offence to park across one in most of London. The white line is a mere courtesy that some councils put in place. Will find the post.

Edited to add: http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?20,449655,449679#msg-449679

[pebbles]

I think I feel although there's no law when there isn't a dropped curb, if there's a car in the driveway you shouldn't park over it however if there is no car then absolutely you can park there.

What gets my goat though is when we are blocked in (or out) and we have a dropped curb (and white line) - especially when the culprit is someone a few doors down who is never ever in to move it. The amount of times i've had to take taxis with the kids to swimming lessons or the like as we couldn't get the car out (and no we couldn't walk as it was too far away).

And so in answer to the OP, if there isn't a dropped curb then it's not against the law however I would hope that people would respect the space if a car was parked in the drive. I hope you sort out whatever issue you have

[AbDabs]

Siduhe Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> KK, I looked this up while back for someone on

> here. It is the drop kerb which is key and it is a

> PCN offence to park across one in most of London.

> The white line is a mere courtesy that some

> councils put in place. Will find the post.

>

> Edited to add:

> http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?2

> 0,449655,449679#msg-449679

The white line is a relatively recent introduction and has no legal significance. It's an 'added extra' that now comes as standard with new dropped kerbs but there are plenty without. Absence of a white line is no defence if you get towed because you parked across a dropped kerb.

There are some very nice people on here who want to avoid parking in front of a car that is parked on a driveway where there is no dropped kerb. I'm afraid I would never be that nice simply because I don't want to encourage anyone to drive across the pavement if it hasn't been properly rebuilt to facilitate that. Even if the driver is 'careful' and even if the paving slabs don't appear to crack, the increased downward pressure (without proper foundation) may cause considerable damage to pipework/cables running underneath. Someone's desire to save themselves ?1000 may end up costing far more that the rest of us will have to pay for.

[Penguin68]

It is the dropped kerb which is the clincher - it's perfectly possible to paint your own white lines (I have a neighbour who did that over his own, entirely legitimate drive way) - but on their own they don't cut the mustard. Interestingly, when our road was re-surfaced, the white lines painted in by my neighbour (who also white-lined across my legitimate dropped kerb) were replaced by the council contractors - and indeed slightly extended.

Parking across a dropped kerb (without permission) is an offence - the police can tow such cars away.

[Jeremy]

I know it's pretty unneighbourly to build a driveway even if you've been refused permission for a dropped kerb, but if you intentionally block somebody's car in, then you're just being a complete dick.

If the driveway is empty, then I guess it's understandable if there's nowhere else to park nearby.

[Chillaxed]

If you're refused permission for a dropped kerb can you still build the driveway? I'd be struggling for sympathy for someone who ignores any safety concerns raised.

[Pugwash]

I have a dropped kerb to my house and my front garden could technically hold 2 small sized cars. My neighbour applied for a dropped kerb but because his house is just beyond a bend an a main road, this was refused. I am just before the bed but it used to infuriate me that people parked on the bend and I would have to swing out when turning left which put me in danger of the oncoming traffic coming the other direction. When the road was resurfaced, the council put double yellow lines in front of my drive. My daughter parked in front of my car briefly as she rushed in to collect something from indoors and a parking attendant swooped. I went out and stated that I had given permission for her to park in front of the drive as she was only going to be approx. 10 mins. I managed to pursuade him not to give her a parking ticket for being on the double lines, but he informed me that technically that he could book me for reversing my car over the yellow lines into my drive. I argued that since I would not be 'parking' on yellow lines that would be rubbish as the dropped kerb had been there since before 1975 when I purchasd the house

[lameduck]

i have 2 dropped kerbs put in years ago, i believe we even paid rates on them.

i have 2 garages behind them one for each, christmas some person parked a motor over one of dropped kerbs managing to obstruct both garages, as they are side by side, called the police, they told us as your motor is out of your garage tough. if your motor was inside they would help, did not want to tell us who owned motor

so we could ask politely, believe me whether you have dropped kerbs or not you have no rights.

[PeckhamRose]

As well as the law the fear factor would bother me! Coming back to see my car/bike had been scratched or something, and also never knowing if the car belonged to someone who maybe could not afford to get a dropped kerb and used their car to take her elderly folks to the hospital and you had blocked them in.

[KidKruger]

This is what I was trying to explain lameduck.

However, I remember when the council started to paint the 'white lines' next to dropped-kerbs, without telling anyone they were going to do this, and instantly had a waddle of wardens ticketing residents who'd previously been parking unhindered in front of dropped-kerbs. This was chiefly to clear the street crossing points (typically at end of roads/corners) deployed for prams/wheelchairs, but the way they did it was entirely cynical and surely designed to capitalise on the new white lines (maybe they had a cost-recovery strategy where they supposed that enouigh fines would cover the expense of the works).

Where's DJKQ on this ? He/she seemed to think if you've no dropped-kerb you deserve to be blocked-in, sort of open seasone on those who have a house with a front yard big enough for a car.

[DJKillaQueen]

Why are you targetting my comment? But seeing as you ask KK I do think that owning a property does not give you ownership of the highway outside it. It's been stated how a dropped kerb differs from an non dropped kerb as the law stands (not to mention the potential damage to the kerb if not altered). Personally I wouldn't block someone in (that would be asking for conflict) but would technically defend the right of someone to use the highway space if they need too. In other words, if you don't want to get blocked in, pay up the required fee and go through the due process to get a dropped kerb.

[Penguin68]

Permission to install (at a price) dropped kerbs is normally given by councils unless there is a clear hazard issue and, when the fronage is of sufficient size, there is a clear planning gain when two (or more) cars can be parked off-street for the loss of one on-street parking space. Often however it is a 1 for 1 trade-off, for smaller, narrower, houses.

I think that traffic wardens trying to fine over parking over a white line painted to distingush a dropped kerb to give access to off-street parking (as opposed to blocking a dropped kerb to assist pedestrians/ wheel chair users to cross at street corners) is not in fact legal - white lines such as these in themselves are advisory. Parking restrictions are distinguished by single or double yellow lines, together with signage (and red lines for red routes). Traffic wardens can fine for parking with wheels on the pavement, unless specifically allowed (again by signage).

I noticed that white lines were painted by the contractors when my road was re-surfaced, in some, but not all, instances replacing lines already there. I suspect white-lining dropped kerbs now forms part of the standard contract for re-surfacing. It does give a useful indication to street parkers as to the 'safe' areas to park, if they wish to avoid either blocking someone in, or getting clipped by someone exiting off-street parking. If you are parked outside white lines, then any damage received from exiting cars is clearly the liability of those exiting. Without white lines where it should be 'safe' to park is much less clear.

The charges for the council dropping kerbs are high (and probably lead to a small profit), but the cost for doing the work (as expensive one-off bespoke work rather than as part of a bigger piece of road repair) is not inconsiderable.