Melbourne Grove Market Trial Online Survey

[andrewc]

https://consultations.southwark.gov.uk/environment-leisure/melbourne-grove-market-trial/

[beansprout]

Why does one need two markets on same day at same time - selling identical stuff?

Thank you for drawing attention to it.

[heartblock]

"so not an early start that might inconvenience residents" ..... well God forbid...I mean they don't have traffic noise or pollution, so it would be awful for there to be any disturbance of their gated community...

[legalalien]

I reckon that with some sort of artisan market it?s only a matter of time before the estate agents start calling it Dulwich?s ?East Village?. Let?s see.

[Bic Basher]

Or they could simply reopen that road and help existing local businesses.

[hammerman]

Looks like Southwark Council (Labour) were closing roads to car drivers just to run another street market. They ran a survey in the summer of 2021 when the street had already been closed down by the council, while shops in the area had lost a lot of footfall. Now they are planning to "press ahead" with their plans.

[Rockets]

Let?s be honest it?s complete tokenism. Dulwich is well served by the current North Cross Road market and to demonstrate they are trying to do something to reverse the negative impact on businesses caused by the LTN they are pushing this idea.

People said that when the LTN came in that it would affect the businesses and no matter the why?s or what?s Melbourne Grove has lost a lot of businesses and now has a lot of empty frontage. It will be interesting to see what impact a market might have but markets and shops along streets markets are located have to both be strong to attract footfall and Melbourne Grove might be too far from Lordship Lane to attract people who are drawn to Lordship Lane and North Cross Road.

[legalalien]

The other thing Tooley Street is quite big on is developing the nighttime economy. Given proximity to the station, might some sort of bar / nightclub enclave be a possibility?

ETA on a related note, looks as though there?s going to be a ?Social Regeneration Charter? for Dulwich at some point in the near future - see https://www.southwark.gov.uk/regeneration/regeneration-that-works-for-all?chapter=10. Presumably delayed due to COVID.

More about social regeneration charters at https://www.communitysouthwark.org/social-regeneration-charters.

Something to keep an eye out for so it isn?t hijacked by in-the-know lobby groups, I suggest.

[1921]

Would it not be better to have the new market on a Sunday ?

[Spartacus]

Personally

If there's a need for more market offerings why not expand NCR market up to the Actress rather than creating a potential rival market.

If the council are keen on supporting high streets then the obvious solution is to keep all the shoppers in one area and not try to create a secondary shopping area.

Its obviously being planned by someone who has never worked as a town centre manager as they haven't got the foggiest on how to look after business interests... then again the council hasn't employed a town centre manager since Peckham Programme folded and the last town centre manager in the Borough retired (10 years ago ish) and the current strategy is Business Improvement Districts (BIDs) where the businesses pay to do what the council should 🤔

[legalalien]

Perhaps it will be one of these?

https://farecity.org/2022/01/17/cleaner-air-market/

[Angelina]

It will attract people to the area, it?s right by the station and will be good for other local businesses.

[Sue]

legalalien Wrote:

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> I reckon that with some sort of artisan market

> it?s only a matter of time before the estate

> agents start calling it Dulwich?s ?East Village?.

> Let?s see.

Years ago some estate agents were calling it "East Dulwich Village".

When I bought my (small, terraced) house it was described as an "artisan's cottage" 🤣🤣🤣

[Waseley]

Stopped myself posting yesterday following the predictable negativity. Glad to see more positive comments. I'm ambivalent and indifferent to NCR. But the document says that some residents and businesses were keen on another street market so why not do a wider consultation

[Spartacus]

The consultation link offers very little opportunity to object to the location of the market or to propose that it be appended to ncr market.

It feels like, yet again, a decision had been made and the consultation is only there to validate that decision...

[ED_moots]

The market is not widely supported by residents of Melbourne Grove. It's 50:50 at best and none of the residents at the shops end support it as far as I know. Businesses were not consulted on CPZ or road closure, both have had a negative impact on footfall. Businesses tried to engage with the council and suggested lots of ways the council could help... better signage to the shops, more pay&display parking and better promotion and marketing of this strip of shops but the only thing the council listened to was the market idea. It was pitched as a last resort. A few shops have closed/moved for various reasons. Those that remain have suffered a lot but there's no justification for the market but, as Rockets says, tokenism.

[Waseley]

Then fill in question 8 on any other comments and say you don't want the market. The form seems acceptable to me. If there is no demand businesses will not flock to join. I don't see this as a conspiracy.

[first mate]

If that seems acceptable to you then I would politely suggest you are not aware how Southwark 'manage' their consultations and data. This is just the latest example.

[ken78]

1921 Wrote:

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> Would it not be better to have the new market on a

> Sunday ?

what a great idea would back that

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Waseley Wrote:

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> Then fill in question 8 on any other comments and

> say you don't want the market. The form seems

> acceptable to me. If there is no demand businesses

> will not flock to join. I don't see this as a

> conspiracy.

This thread is a great example of Southwark Derangement Syndrome in action: Southwark is apparently simultaneously proposing the market as a response to the LTN but also Southwark planned the LTN in order to get the market in! The existence of the consultation on the market is proof that Southwark doesn't want to consult on the market!

I'm looking forward to learning how Southwark and LTNs were also responsible for Storm Eunice, kidnapping Shergar and assassinating JFK.

[alice]

As in Southwark suggesting saturday market knowing people will say why not sunday market. then move it to sunday and say 'you see we do listen'

[Spartacus]

Billy Billy Billy

The conspiracy theory I heard was that Cllr Kieron Williams rode Shergar like the wind from Eunice to a grassy knoll above Dulwich Plaza (the new name for Dulwich Square created by the LTN) before firing the fatal shot that killed Justice, Freedom and Knowledge (JFK) for drivers in Southwark ... oh and Elvis sang "Suspicious Minds" whilst Del Boy set up a dodgy market stall flogging the idea that LTNs work in Dulwich

I for one believe that theory

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Spartacus Wrote:

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> the fatal shot that killed Justice, Freedom

> and Knowledge (JFK) for drivers in Southwark ...

Interesting insight into who you're really worried about!

[heartblock]

Highlighting ridiculous accusations of conspiracy theory seems to have been lost in translation to those unable to intuit Spartacus's intent.

[ED_moots]

Waseley Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Then fill in question 8 on any other comments and

> say you don't want the market. The form seems

> acceptable to me. If there is no demand businesses

> will not flock to join. I don't see this as a

> conspiracy.

Thanks Waseley I managed to work that out myself. Pointless though, this isn't a consultation, southwark just want feedback; they might call it a consultation later though, depends what the responses say. The decision was made a while back and they didn't feel it warranted a consultation. Concerns and objections were raised at the online council meeting where Charlie Smith waffled on about putting up wrought iron gates and water fountains on NCR while Lordship Lane businesses were asking for serious solutions to the drop in trade due to Covid, CPZ and LTNs.

No conspiracy, just Southwark doing their thing, backing up their ill formed decisions with misrepresentations and not much else.