Lime bikes (and other hire companies) left in middle of pavement

[Jenijenjen]

I forgot my phone or would have posted a picture. Junction of Barry Rd next to pedestrian crossing and entrance to Peckham Rye Park.

A jumble/ heap of around 20 Urban Forest hire bikes strewn around the pavement. Unsightly, a hazard and just plain wrong.

 

Just passed by and they’ve all gone …

[first mate]

Good. I pass that way regularly so it will be interesting to see what happens next.

On my own street this morning, a locked ( to a post) bike lying on its side, partly blocking the pavement. Perhaps it has been kicked over deliberately, but it is chained to something.

[legalalien]

It could be worse..

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2018/03/bike-share-oversupply-in-china-huge-piles-of-abandoned-and-broken-bicycles/556268/

Interesting Guardian article with some of the background here.

https://amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/jul/28/bicycle-graveyards-why-do-so-many-bikes-end-up-underwater

Which led me to these which I thought was interesting, about the failed mobike roll out in Manchester, and their subsequent decision to go with something more integrated with public transport and not allowing loads of bikes randomly dumped about the place (ie docking stations required)

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/what-fate-mobike-can-teach-20582240?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

Although still some nervousness about the potential for vandalism

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/nov/10/andy-burnham-dont-throw-manchester-hire-bikes-in-the-canal

I hadn’t appreciated that Serco were behind the Santander bikes in London. Apparently they scrapped their Edinburgh scheme last year as vandalism was costing too much.

[malumbu]

I like those countries where you have a rack on the bus to take bikes. Now we are talking about integrated transport.

I feel a letter to my MP is due.

Please feel free to add other suggestions. My list includes secure bike parking at stations and the high street, bike storage on trains, and physical Vs electronic speed controls in urban areas particularly relevant to the Brenchley Gardens race track.

[legalalien]

I agree with all of those (subject to any unforeseen safety issues with the bike racks - if on the front of buses I guess they might get caught on things?) reminds me that my mum used to hang my pushchair on the back of the bus when I was small

http://transpressnz.blogspot.com/2012/01/carrying-prams-on-buses-in-lower-hutt.html?m=1 (Found a pic to illustrate this)

[froggy]

Ban people? Some folk are responsible and others aren’t. Best thing you can do is move a badly placed bike or scooter to a safer place.

 

Agreed. Throw them somewhere they won't risk hurting or inconveniencing anyone. Like a skip.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Unfortunately, if you skip them, there's a pile of valuable metal that won't be recycled, and a harmful battery that shouldn't be burned or landfilled. Theft would be a much more sustainable and ethical option.

 

my mum used to hang my pushchair on the back of the bus when I was small

http://transpressnz.blogspot.com/2012/01/carrying-prams-on-buses-in-lower-hutt.html?m=1 (Found a pic to illustrate this)

 

Were you in the pram at the time? To be less flippant: the 1 pram per bus maximum is actually a big problem on the 185, 3, P4....

[Penguin68]

Personally, I would make sure that every street had at least one space for a car club car, and one or two for hire bikes - on the road (not the pavement).

I'm afraid that if that happened the one place you probably wouldn't find a bike left is in a designated space. Walking around today they are dumped just where it's convenient to their (former) riders - who would not go seeking out the 'right' spot for them. That's part of their allure - they are 'drop and forget' items. You would have (as other's have noted) to have a regime of fines for those not left in the right space. And the cost of pursuing offenders might well destroy any current business model. As well as reducing their attractiveness to users.

[n dulwich northerner]

You would have (as other's have noted) to have a regime of fines for those not left in the right space. And the cost of pursuing offenders might well destroy any current business model. As well as reducing their attractiveness to users.

 

Like a deposit scheme, hike the upfront cost and then pay back the deposit element when it's left in the right spot (assuming that's automatically detected)?

[Lynne]

I saw a Lime van out this afternoon on E D Rd. collecting them, which was good . Only a few hundred more to go

[malumbu]

Whilst it may be therapeutic to share frustrations with others, as well as contacting the powers that be, also try the company.

I did this with Zip car once and they sorted things out. No doubt too many bikes to sort out immediately but why not share ideas about a deposit scheme?

[imasnookercue]

In Lisbon you have to move e-scooters to a designated place, or the app keeps charging you.

Ill be honest, in London if im every using these things, i do just dump them wherever, because its easier and you are allowed to.

[Bic Basher]

In Lisbon you have to move e-scooters to a designated place, or the app keeps charging you.

Ill be honest, in London if im every using these things, i do just dump them wherever, because its easier and you are allowed to.

 

The Lime scooters have to park in designated places. I've seen one on LL and another on Barry Road.

What Lime and Human Forest need to do is fine customers who don't park their bikes properly. They already have to take a photo after parking the bike which should show if a customer has just dumped it on the pavement blocking access.

[Spartacus]

🤫

[Spartacus]

BBC News - London's e-scooter hire trial extended until 2023

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-63411133

Interesting to see the number of accidents have increased.

[malumbu]

Anyone have any constructive proposals? E bikes and scooters here to stay whether you like them or not.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Dockless bikes should - like Lime/Uber's old bikes - have an integral cable lock, and users should have to lock them to something in order to terminate the ride. This would bring them back in line with privately owned bikes, which never get "abandoned" in the middle of SODDING PAVEMENTS

 

Interesting to see the number of accidents have increased.

 

Yeah but predictable when you radically increase the usage of scooters. The more interesting question is whether they're replacing car journeys (good), relieving capacity on public transport at peaks (good), inducing new journeys (maybe bad), or just cannibalizing public transport ridership (bad).

[Spartacus]

In respect of accidents Billy, I did read somewhere the percentage of accidents on unlicensed scooters compared to the trial ones is unacceptably high.

The unlicensed ones are not restricted speed wise, may not be so robust and aren't tracked to ensure they are used only on the road nor do they have identification plates so unfortunately they aren't always driven by those with licences or as much caution as those on licenced scooters.

Not sure how the private use of scooters will be managed but there needs to be robust rules and enforcement of bad usage in place when tje trial is over.

[Jenijenjen]

I was under the impression that it was still illegal to ride unlicensed scooters I.e. privately owned scooters on public roads and I don’t think there’s any plan to change that once the trial of licensed, rented scooters is completed.

[Penguin68]

As regards bike usage (see above) it will also be interesting to see if poor weather (when/ if we get any) will reduce or not impact usage. My guess would be that (as for normal bikes) bad weather (rain, high winds, ice) will tend to diminish usage - so that we might, over time, expect these to be substantially summer uses. Risks of using them escalate as weather worsens. And will the novelty wear-off?

Not that it is necessarily bad to see them only used in good weather - but the overall impact on road usage will need to be measured over a number of years, not months, to gauge their contribution to reduced air pollution (by which I do not mean CO2 emissions).

[Spartacus]

I was under the impression that it was still illegal to ride unlicensed scooters I.e. privately owned scooters on public roads and I don’t think there’s any plan to change that once the trial of licensed, rented scooters is completed.

 

They are, but that doesn't stop people or accidents

[Jenijenjen]

My point is how can they be managed with robust rules if they’re illegal?

[legalalien]

Some quite interesting background on the scooter / ebike situation here

https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/documents/s109708/Report%20-%20IDM%20Pan%20London%20E-scooter%20Trial%20and%20Southwark%20E-bike%20Trial%20final.pdf

Looks like to date Southwark hasn’t has a formal arrangement with the ebike operators allowing docking stations etc but has less formally allowed bikes to be dropped and collected from pavements etc ( with no financial benefit to the council it would seem). A cynic might say that by behaving badly the bike operators have forced Southwark to the table to make a more formal agreement. It’s not clear to me that Southwark is going to demand more than its costs associated with making parking arrangements ( see paras 35 and 36), I certainly think they should be ( we’re talking corporate multinationals running these services for profit, not local folk trying to save the planet, whatever the marketing hype might suggest).

[malumbu]

Why do users leave the bikes in the wrong places? It would be good to understand behaviour better.

Are users tree huggers, if so it would be surprising that they are not being more responsible.

Kids? Well all generations are in part irresponsible.

Young adults, who are generally quite selfish?

Gross generalisations but it would be good to know behaviours and how best to change this, avoiding big sticks and recognising benefits for personal mobility and the environment.

[Rockets]

The big question will be what types of journeys are these replacing - I very much doubt they are car journeys so if they are either walking or public transport then there will likely be a negative environmental impact by their use.

I suspect councils are using these for a bit of greenwashing but don't properly understand the long-term impact in terms of environmental (both climate change and littering etc - every European city has a big littering problem with them dumped all over the place and the same debate is raging in most of them - are they actually worth it?).