After great excitement... a baby boy

[zeban]

I don't wish to avoid the discussion at all, when exactly did I say that? I wish to avoid the media circus which I have managed to do as I'm not living in the UK at the moment and most people I know were complaining about the TV coverage which I'm very glad I avoided. I do read the UK papers online but haven't read any articles on the subject. Even the Guardian let me down with their fawning. I still keep in touch with forumites so thought I'd send a message to one and saw this so chose to comment as I have many friends from the UK complaining about the media circus, so chose to put my two pennies worth in being a UK citizen and all and it being a public forum and all. Is that ok with you?!!!!! ;-)

[numbers]

I see what you mean.

Well, I'm living in the UK and I've managed to avoid the media circus, imagine a lot of us have. Like any new parents, they probably want to avoid it too but don't have a choice as it comes with the territory. (as William's mother found to her cost, sure that fact isn't lost on him).

[numbers]

good grief zeban, you edit your posts so frequently (and before I even managed to type out my reply above). Why so defensive? no-one was saying you shouldn't be interested in edf or what forumites had to say. however, for someone who was complaining about the UK media circus on birth of royal baby and being glad they weren't in the UK, I'd imagine that you'd be avoiding threads with "after great excitement....a baby boy" in the title, rather than seeking them out, thats all.

Obviously I was wrong.

[numbers]

Saffron Wrote:

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> So to see a woman like Catherine who has professed

> a deep desire to have child, then go on

> successfully to attain that desire with both

> mother and baby healthy is indeed a thing upon

> which to be congratulated. Personally, I received

> many congratulations on the birth of my child,

> some from people I barely knew, and a few from

> perfect strangers. Of course I can't speak for

> every woman, but I cherished every congratulation

> that I received, as did my husband and our

> families.

>

> To people who are naysaying the royal birth, what

> would you be saying if Catherine had had a

> stillbirth? Nothing, I hope.

>

> http://www.uk-sands.org/home.html

> http://www.bigbuddhafilms.co.uk/films/documentary/

> still-born-still-loved/

I think I do see the point you are making saffron, that some people are simply congratulating on a safe, healthy birth.

(Although I'm not sure that those updating FB the way Otta mentions is the same thing, maybe for some it is. One of my FB friends is what I call a 'professional mourner', guaranteed anytime a famous person dies/falls ill etc, she's right up there adding to the nauseating, mawkish sentiments. Some people are the opposite 'professional congratulators' in this case, I dunno...?)

I also think its nice to hear that you and your family cherished every single congratulation on the birth, even from strangers. Having never experienced it myself, its interesting to hear how it feels from the parents point of view.

[zeban]

Got defensive after Saffron's rude reply, sorry about that. Glad you avoided the media circus and agree re your point made about the facebook updates Otta was referring to.

I'll just get back into my smug box now ;-)

[*Bob*]

I can't see the point in sending someone I don't know a message of congratulation which they'll never read.

As a valid and reasonable use of time it's up there with trying to shake hands with a box of Cheerios.

[Otta]

Exactly!

Saffron, I don't disagree with your general point about wishing this woman good luck and good health. I was chatting with my wife about how awful it would be if something went wrong, magnified by the masses of people outside thinking they own a piece of your personal life.

I just think all the Facebook comments are cringe worthy.

Also, if congratulations from strangers meant something to you, that's great. I suspect there are an equal number of women who just want to be left the hell alone though.

[El Pibe]

"Tell someone who had an unexplained stillbirth, or lost a partner in childbirth, that a healthy mother and baby is nothing special. Go on tell them. They're listening. Some of them are on this Forum."

DJKQ levels of pompous projection!

I have a close friend who's sister suffered a stillbirth, treated her with sullen resentment when she got pregnant and shut off relations altogether after the child was born.

I doubt she was updating her status with solipsistic, vacuous, mawkish expressions of joy or policing fora for inadequate levels of awe at every instance of succesful gestation, but you continue dictating how everyone feels about a given situation.

I'm generally a big fan of your posts, but by 'eck you're rubbing me up the wrong way today.

[Jessie]

I have no interest in the royals and their babies and their existence. To correlate this with a lack of empathy about still births and other tragedies is bonkers. I do quite like uncle Gary though.

[zeban]

Thank you all of the above!

[Saffron]

zeban Wrote:

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> Oh Saffron get a grip, you are still confusing

> your issues, missing the point entirely, but

> instead of accepting others don't agree with you

> you choose to be rude instead. Sticking a wink

> face after that sentence doesn't make it any less

> rude.

My comment was no more rude or offensive than your original comment "I am so relieved I don't live in the UK right now", was to some people who do live in the UK. Although I'll quite happily remove the ;-) and replace it with a :( if it suits.

And actually I do accept that other people have different points of view. My point of contention on this thread is how they choose to express those points of view. Why not have a little sensitivity for the things that other people enjoy, like celebrating the royal birth, without ascribing them other negative traits.

[Saffron]

El Pibe Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "Tell someone who had an unexplained stillbirth,

> or lost a partner in childbirth, that a healthy

> mother and baby is nothing special. Go on tell

> them. They're listening. Some of them are on this

> Forum."

>

> DJKQ levels of pompous projection!

>

> I have a close friend who's sister suffered a

> stillbirth, treated her with sullen resentment

> when she got pregnant and shut off relations

> altogether after the child was born.

>

> I doubt she was updating her status with

> solipsistic, vacuous, mawkish expressions of joy

> or policing fora for inadequate levels of awe at

> every instance of succesful gestation, but you

> continue dictating how everyone feels about a

> given situation.

>

> I'm generally a big fan of your posts, but by 'eck

> you're rubbing me up the wrong way today.

Indeed the feeling is mutual.

But to get back to my point, it's that everyone feels differently for different reasons. So why the need to naysay those who do feel positive about it?

[Saffron]

numbers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> good grief zeban, you edit your posts so

> frequently (and before I even managed to type out

> my reply above). Why so defensive? no-one was

> saying you shouldn't be interested in edf or what

> forumites had to say. however, for someone who was

> complaining about the UK media circus on birth of

> royal baby and being glad they weren't in the UK,

> I'd imagine that you'd be avoiding threads with

> "after great excitement....a baby boy" in the

> title, rather than seeking them out, thats all.

>

> Obviously I was wrong.

Am also confused as to why people who profess dislike/disinterest seem to seek out the exact things they dislike, but I guess that's part of the human condition that everyone needs an outlet. *Sigh*

[Saffron]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Exactly!

>

> Saffron, I don't disagree with your general point

> about wishing this woman good luck and good

> health. I was chatting with my wife about how

> awful it would be if something went wrong,

> magnified by the masses of people outside thinking

> they own a piece of your personal life.

>

> I just think all the Facebook comments are cringe

> worthy.

>

> Also, if congratulations from strangers meant

> something to you, that's great. I suspect there

> are an equal number of women who just want to be

> left the hell alone though.

Ok, I think I understand what you mean there.

You find it odd that people would offer congratulations to a public figure (particularly those who wouldn't generally be prone to such things)... In which case what I'm saying is that the opposite is also true: It's equally odd that people who wouldn't normally criticise a new mother & child and their well-wishers, feel the need to do so simply because she is a public figure. (Exceptions being made for people who feel the need to celebrate/criticize any public figure.)

[Chick]

>

> If you or Jeremy or Bob etc want to talk about how

> you dislike the Royals as an institution, that

> fine. Opinions differ. But to me then, you're

> the ones "confusing the issue" with simply

> congratulating Catherine on the birth.

Do you know "Catherine" well?

[woodrot]

all this attention to a child , born of incredible wealth and power, who will get everthing in life he ever needs.

sounds like a perfect opportunity to celebrate to me.

in other pointless birth celebrations, how about one for the 8000 feral kittens that are born every day in france ?

lets crack open another case of bubbly