Chav Pride

[Moos]

Hmm, this thread started off affectionate and funny, and it's gone a bit awry.

[Rico]

A better exercise would be to instill pride into Chavs to give them hope of breaking the cycle.

[mockney piers]

or just instill an education, that does it for most things really.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Magnolia walls, crocks and decking could be presecribed for their rehabilitation. Or do you think they would need to start shopping in bland, expensive, tasteless shops for the full-transformtion to take effect?

[Rico]

End benefit cheats, end council home rights for life and your kids and their kids, banish football yobs...you get the picture.

Though strangely, I find Chav as a type quite a turn on.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Ok Rico, so you want people who at present are often quoted as feeling excluded from society, to be made homeless and deny them money to survive?

So lets just think this through.

Said underclass, suddenly starving and homeless watching, weedy, crock wearing middleclasses stuffing their alfalfa sprouts into their gobs. Anyone think the homeless chavs would remain hungry and homeless for long? Or do you think the middle classes would be happy to spend Tarquin's school fund money on 24 hour security and 15 foot walls?

[muffintop]

Chav, if you think this is bad, look what the heck is going on in the general issues section, thread - "woman gets stabbed in Peckham" thread, absolutely shambolic!

[Rico]

I'm all for free choices but personal responsibility. Glad to fund council housing. Just make it income tested each year and encourage people to support themselves. By all means have kids, but like we did, choose wisely and make sure you can raise them. Yes I know all the variables but we ere to much on supporting people who make poor choices. We're moving again to a society where its too easy to live off the state than not. Gotta watch that.

[Rico]

And muffin, my point was gay pride, like the women's movement, the black movement, etc. was all about people who are born a certain way saying 'we're just people and there is no issue about our sex, orientation, colour, etc.' Being proud of who you are. And it's saying there is nothing 'bad' about being who you were born.

Chavs is hardly a hereditary trait. Saying 'we're born this way and should just live and let live' doesn't apply. There are some traits learned by chavs that do need to change - whether a white, black, gay, asian, jewish chav (traits that aren't the issue). So I challenge the whole premise of needing 'chav pride'.

[James]

Oh Rico, I'm finding myself agreeing with most of what you say. Especially the bit about some chavs being hot! Lol

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

I didn't realise things like fertility were a lifestyle choice - and stuffing chemicals down your throat or into your arse to prevent pregnancy is not always either, available, desirable or failsafe.

[Rico]

See I'll go a long way in agreeing there are things we can't control and have to provide help with. My hunch is you'll go no way in saying there's a strong need for people to take more personal responsibility.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Of course I beleive in people taking more personal responsibility e.g. the CEO's of Shell in Nigeria, the bosses of Northern Rock, the bankers who gambled on the sub-prime market, Thatcher and Blair for allowing the powerful to become more powerful etc.

[Rico]

Just put your cards on the table and we'll all be better informed. Anyone of wealth is reponsible for all the evils, while the poor are all victims, even if they are anti-social (it's not their fault). You are no doubt a pure socialists? Believe all should be paid equally and somehow magically that would create a perfect world?

Don't be ashamed. Just put your cards on the table.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

I'll admit to anyone that I believe we need a Green revolution based on social and environmental equity and the dismantling of centralised, over-powerful corporations/government/banks etc in order to prevent the devastation of the planet and millions of peoples lives that will result from the remainaing resources grab and the implosion of capitalism.

[Rico]

Thought so.

Sorry folks, am I the only middle of the road, common sense person sick of extremists on both sides?

The same fear used to convince us to go after terrorists is the same fear used by the other side regarding the 'devestation of the planet'.

Sick of extremes. Both sides of the spectrum. Common sense. Does it exist?

[Moos]

Try the Daily Mail. Apparently it's full of it.

[Rico]

Predictable.

So just to be clear, Moo and all others agree with Chav's approach?

Mass re-distribution of wealth, Gov't control of the entire financial services sector, etc.? Really?

Of course I understand climate change. Think it's important. Not Daily Mail reader. But Do you all, like Moos, agree with Chav to the extent we have to radically overhaul Government to deal with it?

Wow. I'm stunned.

[SimonM]

Beware of the Troll....B)

[ontheedge]

And what's the problem with having socialism as an Ideal. One of the best things I was taught at school was aim for the sky and you'll hit the roof aim for the roof and you'll hit the floor & also the world needs thinkers we all thought the nun said tinkers as we irish have a problem with our ths but it didn't change the message. We are all needed and here for a reason and life path I believe in Sartre and we are all fated for our destenies.

As a friend of mine used to say f***k the begrudgers his philosophy has not yet been documented!!!

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

I believe in Satire - does that count?

[SeanMacGabhann]

Jean Paul Satire? Marvellous books those...

[Moos]

Simon, you are so right. What a very obvious lure, yawn.

[Rico]

Perhaps I'm a troll in need of 12 steps so I'm unaware.

I think the Daily Mail approach is every bit as polarising as Chav's. But she is hailed as the way forward and anyone thinking perhaps we need a more centrist approach is hailed as a Daily Mail troll.

I'm part of the overwhelming majority of people who would vote Conservative tomororow. Not because I'm a conservative (I voted Labour for some time now) but because we need to pull outselves back to the centre. There are many of us. And we get more dissillusioned when people like you on both extremes dismiss dialogue with anyone not willing to buy 100% extremist views.

The Troll

[mockney piers]

How do you get more centre than this unashamedly populist, business leaning labour party mandated by you?