Haberdashers' East Dulwich - 751 families supporting

[Shuggy]

That's quite an interesting reading of the report bornagain.

To take your first point: "1. There is over capacity in the secondary provision across the borough until 2016."

That isn't quite the whole picture is it? Or even the whole sentence. What the report actually says:

"... overall there is significant capacity within Southwark schools to meet the forecast demand for year 7 places until 2016 AND A DRAMATIC INCREASE IN DEMAND FROM THEREON."

We hope this new school will provide places to meet that dramatic increase in demand locally.

Which is why the report sites this project under the list of way of "meeting future secondary demand".

It's also interesting how you interpret the increase in demand for places as only being an issue for the north of the borough when the report clearly says:

"A particular concern is the provision of accessible local secondary places in the south of the borough, where a lack of direct travel routes from home to school means that secondary schools that may be geographically close and have available places are difficult to reach. Examining demand and supply at this more local level indicates that the pressure for places is likely to be felt in the south of borough from 2016 onwards, flowing through to the rest of the borough from 2018 onwards."

[Shuggy]

Full report here:

http://tinyurl.com/olo9ya3

[bornagain]

Well Shuggy, I did say that it was my take on the report. We all interpret what we want to see from it.

'a lack of direct travel routes from home to school means that secondary schools that may be geographically close and have available places are difficult to reach.'

- this has already been discussed on this thread - many schools can be reached easily by bus or train. Many schools are more accessible than Kingsdale for instance from East Dulwich. Thee report acknowledges that secondary age children can and may have to travel a bit further. It is the PREFERENCE of local parents that their children walk to school.

"Although there is a sufficiency of places across the borough there is ongoing representation from some primary schools, parent groups and families in regard to accessibility of places in their preferred schools. A particular concern is the provision of accessible local secondary places in the south of the borough, where a lack of direct travel routes from home to school means that secondary schools that may be geographically close and have available places are difficult to reach. Examining demand and supply at this more local level indicates that the pressurefor places is likely to be felt in the south of boroughfrom 2016 onwards, flowing through to the rest of the borough from 2018 onwards. "

It also helps if you take the entire quote. By missing out the first sentence you give the wrong impression. The report is reporting that although there are enough places, there is pressure from people in certain areas who are not happy with access to their preferred school.

[bornagain]

Aagh I wrote a long reply to you redjam but the system gobbled it up!

The gist of it was that the report says that Southwark is planning to fill these by expanding 4 excellent schools - Kingsdale in south, Bacon's in the north and City and St Michaels in between.

The schools are not FAILING, they are UNDERSUBSCRIBED. Peckham Academy for instance was rated good by ofsted. As far as know none of the secondary schools in Southwark are failing. Some schools are just not popular - for whatever reason.

I think my last point was that we need to be more imaginative about making some of these schools more popular - providing school buses if they are not easy to get to - Kingsdale does that. It is much more cost effective to expand existing schools than building new ones, especially as you don't have to pay for land.

Hope it posts this time.

[Shuggy]

As the actual figures show, that sufficiency of places will not last beyond 2016. In fact they show the shortfall of places across the borough increasing, leaving a shortage of over 500 places by 2019. So this school is not just a way of addressing a temporary local bulge but dealing with an ongoing and worsening problem.

The Council know this, which is why the leaders of Southwark gave us their full support in providing a secondary school in this area to open by 2016.

[bornagain]

As I read it, in the short/medium term shortage of places are planned to be plugged by expanding the 4 existing schools providing 10FE (300 places) - this takes us to 2018. Beyond that you will need another 200+ places. This will be around a school and a half. I'm not sure how big the proposed ED school is going to be, but I suppose it could be a part of that strategy - so that is for 2019 (not 2016). They are also going to see if any other existing schools could expand.

'All were identified as having capacity to expand with over 10FE of additional capacity possible at these schools with appropriate investment. '

This study was done in 2012. I have heard talk about KD expanding.

[Shuggy]

These four schools have taken part in a feasibility study to see if they can expand, which would be great as it seems possible. But the report goes on to acknowledge that expansion is not ideal and new facilities are needed:

"35. Although it may be theoretically possible to meet all the longer term demand from

within the existing estate it is unlikely that this approach would be the best way to

do so. Meeting the rapid rise in demand in this way would naturally put pressure

on existing sites and facilities, and potentially impact on current pupils and their

learning.

36. The experience of the primary expansion programme has shown that expanding

existing schools becomes more complex as tight sites that must continue to

provide the highest standard of education for pupils come into scope. These

schemes can become costly per place when compared to a new build school.

37. The establishment of a new secondary school in the borough to meet the place

demand that is likely to be felt from 2016 in the south of the borough and from

2018 borough-wide needs to be given serious consideration. A free school

proposal is emerging from a group of local parents who are exploring a parent

promoted secondary free school in East Dulwich. Officers will keep members

advised on the progress of this proposal."

I find it hard to read this in any other way than what we are proposing fits Southwark's plans to meet the shortfall of places.

[James Barber]

I do agree with Shuggy that it is important to read the whole report.

[bornagain]

I don't think I have said anything anytime that this area, including but not just ED, may need one or more secondary schools some time in the future. What I AM saying is not necessarily in 2016 and not necessarily in ED and certainly not on the hospital site.

I am going to bow out of this discussion for now as I think we are just going round in circles quoting larger and larger chunks out of the report. I wanted to give this thread a more rounded view of educational provision than just the narrow ED based focus. I truly am sorry that those of you with children coming up to secondary education have this enormous worry.

I think what I am saying really is that things may not be that bad. To a certain extent, you have to be optimistic and go with the flow. There are good schools in Southwark and your children will probably be lucky enough to get in one.

The problem of the current system is that the possibility of free schools give an illusion of choice and also makes everyone more self-centred. I am not blaming you, it's the system. But the result is that people go for it regardless of anyone else.

If I got ?1 for everyone who said 'I am opposed to free schools but...' I would not have to go back now and do some work.

Best wishes everyone, I hope every child gets a school place that they are happy with.

[healey]

bornagain Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't think I have said anything anytime that

> this area, including but not just ED, may need one

> or more secondary schools some time in the future.

> What I AM saying is not necessarily in 2016 and

> not necessarily in ED and certainly not on the

> hospital site.

>

You rightly mention undersubscribed schools in less leafy and middle class areas of London, but ED folk naturally aren't interested in having their kids commute to inner-city estates having fought to get a foothold in a nicer area.

Snobby of course, but I still wouldn't want that for my child. Egalitarian principles vanish when it comes to one's own kids.

[James Barber]

Had word today that Southwark Conservative group also now support our campaign.

[James Barber]

Latest data I've been sent about Southwark secondary school admissions this cycle - just for Southwark residents:

Southwark residents secondary school applications by Southwark ward:

POLITICAL_WARD COUNT(T.STUD_ID)

Brunswick Park 118

Camberwell Green 181

Cathedrals 90

Chaucer 103

College 107

College Ward 1

East Dulwich 81

East Walworth 122

Evelyn 2

Faraday 140

Gipsy Hill 1

Grange 116

Herne Hill 1

Livesey 183

Newington 146

Nunhead 128

Peckham 200

Peckham Rye 107

Riverside 99

Rotherhithe 112

South Bermondsey 159

South Camberwell 120

Surrey Docks 63

The Lane 137

Vassall 1

Village 121

total 2,639

(weirdly some wrong ward names present)

Table two follows, for 17 schools, Please note these are Southwark children Only

BASE_NAME COUNT(DISTINCTT.STUD_ID)

ARK All Saints Academy 292

Bacon's College 861

Compass School Southwark 220

Globe Academy 430

Harris Academy Bermondsey 310

Harris Academy at Peckham 316

Harris Boys' Academy East Dulwich 311

Harris Girls' Academy East Dulwich 276

Kingsdale School 585

Notre Dame School 237

Sacred Heart RC Secondary School 557

St Michael's Catholic College 505

St Saviour's and St Olave's School 503

The Charter School 801

The City of London Academy 1137

The St Thomas the Apostle College 198

Walworth Academy 590

total 8,129

[mariababe]

Hi James,

Would you mind please explaining the data?

Is the bottom section applicants by school for southwark residents or all applicants?

The top section lists areas and numbers - is this where the applications came from?

Thanks

[James Barber]

Hi mariababe,

I've added some notes to the original post which hopefully makes it clearer.

But for clarity. First table is applkicatns for Southwark located secondary schools by ward.

Seocnd table is Southwark ocated secondary schools and how many southwark based people applied for them.

What I funnd interesting is the total number of Southwark residents applying for Southwark secondary schools is a ratio of 3:1.

[BellendenBear]

James, could that be explained by each pupil applying for more than one school?

[James Barber]

Hi BellendenBear,

Yes on average 3 Southwark School are applied for by each Southwark pupil. But they have 6. Clearly many will apply for other norough schools but probably not an average of 3 as well of the 6 possible preferences.

[James Barber]

Some more data. How many children didnt get one of the 6 preferences they stated on their application form.

Please find bellow the required information, the leftmost set of data is for ALL allocations and the right columns are for children's which are not receiving one of their six preferences, please let me know if further action is required

Regards

POLITICAL_WARD TOTAL POLITICAL_WARD_1 PREF_21

Brunswick Park 118 Brunswick Park 4

Camberwell Green 181 Camberwell Green 7

Cathedrals 91 Cathedrals 3

Chaucer 103 Chaucer 2

College 107 College 11

East Dulwich 79 East Dulwich 5

East Walworth 122 East Walworth 2

Evelyn 2 Evelyn 1

Faraday 141 Faraday 8

Gipsy Hill 1 Gipsy Hill 1

Grange 117 Grange 1

Livesey 182 Livesey 10

Newington 147 Newington 8

Nunhead 129 Nunhead 5

Peckham 201 Peckham 8

Peckham Rye 108 Peckham Rye 7

Riverside 99 Riverside 1

Rotherhithe 111 Rotherhithe 5

South Bermondsey 160 South Bermondsey 1

South Camberwell 120 South Camberwell 13

Surrey Docks 63 Surrey Docks 2

The Lane 136 The Lane 10

Village 121 Village 1

[TE44]

James can you give data on how many spaces are still available in southwark schools, thanks. What is the likely hood

of these figures changing, waiting list, or does Southwark council now write to these parents

offering a place in a school which is not over subscribed.

[James Barber]

Hi TE44,

I'm afraid I can;t get this extra data without distracting council officials who are busy helping with secondary admissions questions from pretty stressed families and workingon the primary admissions phase.

Happy to do this later when things have calmed down for everyone.

[TE44]

Sorry James, I just don't get that, surely it is part of the admission phase to look at preferred places with places

available, it used to be Southwark Council allocated a place in a school under subscribed if you did not get any

of your preference. Is this still the process, it seems obvious the places available will be common knowledge to those

dealing with this situation. Im sure parents who did not get there preference would want to know which schools are available.

The figures above do not show people moving to/out of London applying late, this was given as a reason for loss of Gcsemissing pupils, if this is true I'd imagine it would have an affect throughout.

[James Barber]

We had expected to announce our agreed school provider by 31 March. We're all bursting to tell you.

Our preferred provider has been chosen but we're awaiting final confirmation from them which is delayed until Tuesday 8 April.

Unavoidable delay. Please be patient.

[minder]

Come on James, you might as well let it out of the bag!

[James Barber]

Initial timetable for making our school happen has been agreed with our chosen school provider. They have one final internal governance hurdle to go.

Steering Group has agreed its own Terms of Reference.

[TE44]

James I thought you said earlier. "we're hopeful that the purpose of the steering group will come to an end when an agreement provider is made and we pass the project to that provider to run and deliver". Is this still the case.

[James Barber]

Hi TE44,

The provider has asked that the Steering Group helps further until the free school application in made in November.

Planning a public meeting when they have more capacity when exams start which fortuitously is post the local elections. The Steering Group will help with that and delivering lots of leaflets.