Nelson Mandela has died.

[david_carnell]

El Pibe Wrote:

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> Nelson, kicked the french about, rasied awareness

> for gay rights!!

I was going to make that joke. Even wrote it out. Plus something rude about Di. Then hit back on the browser. Damn.

[Louisa]

Thank goodness for people like Nelson Mandela and indeed Diana for raising awareness around HIV/AIDS. Still such a misunderstood illness which has a devastating affect on individuals both physically and emotionally, as well as being responsible for killing so many before treatments became available, and indeed to this day is still cruelly taking the lives of treatment deprived communities in parts of Africa and Asia. It's so easy to underestimate the influence someone can have just by confronting taboos head on. Diana seen hugging a dying man may seem trivial to some of you, but for me it was a life changing moment following all the scary imagery and misinformation which was doing the rounds regarding this illness back in the day.

Louisa.

[StraferJack]

she was never unaware of where the cameras were tho was she?

plus, however much it impacted on you, it didn't exactly put her out much did it?

[david_carnell]

Diana = media whore

Please don't even try and compare her to someone who fought to end apartheid.

[Loz]

I'm sorry, but discussing Diana's 'greatness' on a thread about Mandela is just wrong, wrong, wrong. You may as well throw Elton John into the mix on that basis.

[Louisa]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> she was never unaware of where the cameras were

> tho was she?

And why would she be? The woman was hounded by cameras for years, and unlike some whinging celebrities she took the opportunity to use this publicity to the advantage of various causes.

> plus, however much it impacted on you, it didn't

> exactly put her out much did it?

Maybe it didn't, but even if it only impacted on me, and no one else, it was still a force for the good, at a time when most people would not touch this topic with a barge poll StraferJack.

Louisa.

[StraferJack]

mid to late 90s? people wouldnt empathise with aids victims?

You were hanging around with the wrong crowd love, never mind about Diana

[Otta]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> she was never unaware of where the cameras were

> tho was she?

But isn't that the point? She used her fame to do a bit of good. Sure she could have done more and I'm not a huge Di fan or anything, but compared to the majority of the royals she was a Saint!

[StraferJack]

"She used her fame to do a bit of good."

yup some good for the causes. even more good for her

they weren't difficult causes either

yeah it's better than doing nothing but including it in a thread about Mandela/apartheid is just wrong

[Louisa]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> mid to late 90s? people wouldnt empathise with

> aids victims?

>

> You were hanging around with the wrong crowd love,

> never mind about Diana

I didn't actually state a year, but I think you'll find she was meeting HIV/AIDS victims back in the 80s when the illness was at its height and no not so many people were empathetic. Read the link below, April 1987.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1291&dat=19870410&id=PidUAAAAIBAJ&sjid=aY0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=5210,2926222

And "hanging out with the wrong crowd love", come on StraferJack please, I don't think this thread is one to be getting personal with people. I am stating why I believed she was great in what she chose to do, and to everyone else, I named a few "great" people from the 20th century, all on different levels for different reasons. Of course I am not directly comparing her charity work to a man who defeated apartheid in South Africa. Why does everything on this forum always lead to personal attacks? People may want to take inspiration from the great man himself who despite all the odds managed to bring peace and reconciliation to his country without the use of confrontation.

Louisa.

[StraferJack]

" I don't think this thread is one to be getting personal with people. "

you might want to reconsider repeating my name then, given that you don't do it with anyone else

"Of course I am not directly comparing her charity work to a man who defeated apartheid in South Africa. Why does everything on this forum always lead to personal attacks? "

Apologies - I hadn't realised you had chosen a different thread to make the comparison.

as for NM bringing peace without confrontation? I'm as in awe of him as most, but his unbelievable equanimity to enemies upon release is amazing, but he was no saint and wasn't afraid of confrontation

PS what personal attacks?

[Jeremy]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> he was no saint and wasn't afraid of confrontation

Yep... most of the stuff I've been reading about him today conveniently wipes out a big chunk of his history.

(although I'm not suggesting that the ends didn't justify the means)

[uncleglen]

No one speaks ill of the dead-but no-one spoke ill of him when he was alive despite his pre-prison life. I know South Africans and murder, violence and sex crimes are too commonplace in the country.

[Alan Medic]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> "She used her fame to do a bit of good."

>

> yup some good for the causes. even more good for

> her

>

What do you mean SJ? What 'good' was she pursuing for herself?

[bigdavid]

The way a subset of the regulars on this forum communicates with each other, some of which is evident even on this thread, makes it fairly obvious that they have never listened to a single word Mandela has ever said.

[StraferJack]

Scattergun approach bigD

Care to elaborate?

@ alan medic - media profile. Passive aggressive attrition with equally culpable husband. Etc

[Otta]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> StraferJack Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > he was no saint and wasn't afraid of

> confrontation

>

> Yep... most of the stuff I've been reading about

> him today conveniently wipes out a big chunk of

> his history.

>

> (although I'm not suggesting that the ends didn't

> justify the means)

Similar with Che Guevara, the nastier /harsher things he did are basically swept under the carpet. Not that I'm calling him a Mandela.

[*Bob*]

BBC seem to have got their schedules mixed-up last night - and accidentally transmitted a Dimbleby 'doc' aimed at and narrated for children - in the post watershed slot.

If anyone knows when the grown-up one is on, let me know?

[Mick Mac]

Was in a London hotel bar last night and a group of middle aged white south Africans sitting next to us didn't appear to be big Mandela fans but I guess that was part of the problem he was working to solve.

[LadyNorwood]

Plenty of middle-aged black south Africans who weren't big NM fans either...

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> Was in a London hotel bar last night and a group

> of middle aged white south Africans sitting next

> to us didn't appear to be big Mandela fans but I

> guess that was part of the problem he was working

> to solve.

[Mick Mac]

And for what reason?

[LadyNorwood]

..

[malumbu]

Oh no. That has spoiled my evening.

To be serious and not checked other conversations, Thatcher and the party in the 80s saw him as a terrorist.

All credit to Jerry Dammers for how he got this into the national conscious.

[Loz]

LadyNorwood Wrote:

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> Families, friends, relatives of anyone 'necklaced' perhaps...

Wasn't that Winnie, rather than Nelson?

[????]

LadyNorwood Wrote:

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> Families, friends, relatives of anyone 'necklaced'

> perhaps...

You're just showing your ignorance - Nelson Mandela was in jail when that was all happening and when he came out he made the famous speech about throwing guns and knives into the sea. It's fine taking a different line but just being pig ignorant is just that.