The Maudsley / NHS Finances / South London Paper

[Alan Dale]

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[jim_the_chin]

The maudsley's coffers are being raided by the acute trusts who are the ones leaking all the money, it's not really their fault that they have to cut services. but i don't know what they're doing with those buildings, why don't you write to them under the freedom of information act and ask them what their plans are.

edit: oh, it seems you have.

so, reading that thread, why do you think that they're cutting services rather than just selling the properties to pay for it?

[Alan Dale]

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[jim_the_chin]

so you're suggesting that they made a decision to cut a valuable service so they could make a few hundred thousand more on the property market?

[Alan Dale]

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[jim_the_chin]

But, by suggesting its a deliberate strategy you have to picture the board of the Maudsley, including lay members, sitting around a table and deciding that a few million pounds are more important than people in distress. The alternative view is that the emergency clinic is an expensive service used by a small-number of people who can be helped by a more responsive type of service delivery.

Your talk is pure tabloid-ese, with a suggestive raised eyebrow at the end. It finds something anomolous and attributes it to some non-descript evil intention. The property angle is a red herring. If you know anything about the management of NHS trusts you'll know they're riven with bureaucractic mis-management, rather than malevolent financial speculation.

I would say that the South London Press has its own mixed agenda in the need to find stories to sell papers, and well knows that a 'campaign' shifts copies. I would trust the intentions of the Maudsley over those of the SLP.

[Alan Dale]

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[jim_the_chin]

i worked in windsor walk 10 years ago - i remember watching the last houses shut up, and seeing the old couple at the end who were the last survivors. the old lady used to scrub thew doorstep surrounded by derelection. it was a poignant sight. at the time i thought they were waiting for that couple to leave before they redveloped the whole site.

i really doubt it's been deliberate though, its their inability to act that most often causes them problems.

[Amelie]

I believe that an NHS trust is under a duty to maximise its assets, you might try writing to the Audit Commission and asking for their opinion. My mother used to work for the Maudsley and they were always chaotic.

[spadetownboy]

Amelie Wrote:

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> I believe that an NHS trust is under a duty to

> maximise its assets, you might try writing to the

> Audit Commission and asking for their opinion. My

> mother used to work for the Maudsley and they were

> always chaotic.

"they were always chaotic",who the staff or the patients.

[Alan Dale]

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[Alan Dale]

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[jim_the_chin]

as i said above, having a surplus right now in mental health means you're likely to have it lifted to pay for the acute (medical) trusts shortfalls. so, perhaps flying close to the wind in terms of budget and keeping assets to one side is not a bad thing after all.

i also reiterate that the emergency clinic is not being shut because it's a great, if expensive, service. it's just not viable to keep it open for the small numbers who use it. true, the funding crisis is being used as a bit of a smoke screen to reorganise inefficient parts of the service. but, like closing the 'bins' years ago, it needs doing.

edit: oh, and how much would you do stuart bell's job for? 8000 staff to deal with and outside pressures. i wouldn't do it for that money.

[bawdy-nan]

I did a bit of research about the closure of the emergency clinic. I spoke to SLAM (the trust) who say that the service wasn't good enough and that only a limited number of people were using it. They said that people were better off being treated at home. They also said that Kings A&E (over the road) could replace the emergency service.

Users of the clinic say that the service is vitally important especially because the staff are able to manage people in mental health crisis so they don't end up being sectioned. They also say that the A&E at Kings can't cope, that its already overstretched and in any case a very busy A&E is too terrifying a place for someone in mental health crisis to be. They say the provision of care at home is being cut (I don't know about this). Some were very wary about the removal of "safe" emergency provision thinking it might be part of a conspiracy to enable the "enforced" treatment of people with mental health problems at home. I believe there's some proposed legislation at some stage in parliament which will allow for "enforced" drug treatment of people suffering from mental health problems.

As I understand it the "cuts" being made aren't solely because of being cash-strapped. The trust seems very keen to be putting forward the cuts as part of a broader "reconfiguration" of services which is happening through out the NHS. They say its not just money, rather, making services work better.

I don't think that releasing capital woud necessarily help much in the medium to long term. Once its sold its gone and can't cover ongoing costs.

I agree that its a shame the properties aren't being used but more because I think its scandalous when property is left to ruination when there's such desperate housing need.

[Amelie]

No, the Audit Commission and the National Audit Office are separate. The former deals with local government, the latter with the big public institutions like museums and also Central Govt. On reflection, it might be the NAO to whom you should speak and I suggest that you just call them and ask if they deal with auditing NHS Trusts. Even if they don't they should tell you who does.

[Amelie]

The staff were chaotic, the patients put up with an awful lot.

[DiscoDex]

I've just moved to Sydney but have kept my house in East Dulwich as when I return in a couple of years I want to stay in the area as love it, read this subject and felt I had to chip in cos I feel v strongly about this subject!

Alan, I agree 100% with you about the properties by Denmark station. Its a crime that they can be left there in that state. I would say that the site is prime real estate territory in Southwark given that D Hill station getting tube, ED's rise to fame and the continuing strength of C Grove prop market. I say we set up a website and start a petition for these buildings to be sold off.........what do you reckon?

[Alan Dale]

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[louisiana]

Alan Dale Wrote:

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>

> Does anyone know how to start an online petition

> and step this campaign up to the next level? Also

> what exactly is the campaign?

Why not try the epetitions thing set up by my mate Tom Steinberg?

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/

This is attached to the Cabinet Office, but nothing wrong with going to the top!

I think there are matters of principle here - the use of NHS/public property, the responsibilities of NHS trusts, including to their local communities - which are of much wider application. You might even get the profile raised a bit if you can get some numbers going (the national press tend to be on the lookout on the website for interesting petitions, plus Southwark News, SLP etc might even run a story if it gets going.) You can also point local councillors, MPs etc to it, so it makes a great focal point.

A word of advice: be very careful how you phrase the petition, as you can't change the wording later. Perhaps draft it collaboratively, to get input from several people and get it just right.

Louisiana

>

> I think they've had long enough to find an NHS use

> and should be forced to sell to a developer

> perhaps by threat of compulsory repurchase by the

> council.

[jim_the_chin]

congrats to bawdy nan for an informed answer.

there is absolutely no housing for those in desperate need of it at the moment. there are derelict properties all over london that could be used for this purpose.

[Alan Dale]

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[Alan Dale]

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[Alan Dale]

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[downsouth]

Good to hear!

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Pity they didn't manage to make their decision when there was still a chance of saving the emergency clinic. Anyone smell fish?