PCSO's stopping and fining cyclists (on ED Road)

[PeckhamRose]

Oh and will people stop telling everyone else to use a bicycle. Facsyclists!

Some of us are physically unable to, some for health reasons.

[Huguenot]

Sorry PR, I'm confused.

You want there to be no traffic lights at the Peckham Rye East Dulwich Road junction?

What do you think will happen to the traffic?

[PeckhamRose]

I think roundabouts should replace most traffic lights at most junctions everywhere, yes including Peckham Rye SE22 and Peckham Rye SE15 junctions with East Dulwich Road. Pelican crossings and zebra crossings can be installed on the roads leading up to the roundabouts. Works in East Dulwich Roundabout at Lordship Lane, doesn't it? And roundabouts work everywhere else. You progress when there is no traffic, and you don't get held up unnecessarily just because a red lights tell you to.

On topic - saw a policeman fining a cyclist going over a red light at Shaftesbury Avenue yesterday. There was absolutely no traffic coming so the cyclist would have been quite safe and I actually saw him look both ways. Unfortnately he did so right next to a police car, so the police car bombed forward and nicked him. Probably nicked him for being stupid enough to take the p!ss right next to a police car. I never have a problem with cyclists going over red lights.

[SimonM]

But the Lordship Lane roundabout is for 3 roads not 4. To make a suitable-sized roundabout at Peckham Rye would involved carving a whole chunk from the corner of the Rye itself. And you'd still have delays from your proposed Pelican crossings.

[macroban]

Last time I counted there were five roads.

[SimonM]

I suppose Spurling Road (which I used to live on!) has to count as a 4th, but I'm not sure which is the 5th to the roundabout? It's still 3 busy roads to Peckham Rye's 4 though. :)

[Huguenot]

Ah, I see where you're coming from. I like roundabouts too, but there is plenty of evidence that they cannot work in high traffic areas - of which that junction is one.

It's counter intuitive, because we like to imagine best case scenarios (like 9pm). We feel that the freedom of roundabouts will deliver freedom of movement. Instead drivers with conflicting destinations are simply inconsiderate in practice, and tend to block other drivers rather than give way. We can't wish away other drivers obnoxious behaviour!

There are mathematical proofs of the traffic threshold of effective roundabout action - and that junction would comfortably exceed it during the working day.

If you think the GG roundabout works, then I can't believe you've been there during the working day!

By seeking freedom we simply imprison ourselves.

Nevertheless, there are associated studies that show that increasing the risk to drivers in busy areas actually increases safety.

[PeckhamRose]

A suitable sized roundabout? Have you seen the tiny ones on Clayton/Consort Roads? Work perfectly. You do not need to take a chunk out of the park. The pavement was widened on the opposite corner of the park to make the trsffic light junction. That pavement was fine the way it was.

The Goose Green roundabout does work. It gets hectic at rush hour of course it does but at least when you get to it and it is clear you can progress. If you get to it and it is clear but a red light tells you to stop for no reason, is that a good thing? Course not.

And another thing - the crashes in Dorset yesterday had the police telling us to drive safely and be more considerate and most importantly to TAKE RESPONSIBILITY. Amen to that, but that means pedestrians too of course. I rode 80 miles around London yesterday for work (no, not a courier), without leaving the big size A-Z, and it is ridiculous that different boroughs in the same town called London have different ideas. And Southwark is one of the most backwards. IMHO ;) I know, I know, I should be at church...

[Huguenot]

It's virtually impossible to exit Spurling Road at peak periods on the GG roundabout, as southbound traffic from East Dulwich Road and Dolg Kennel Hill exceeds Lordship Lane's capacity to receive them. QED the roundabout doesn't work well at peak periods.

It is quite simply impossible to make sweeping judgments about the effectiveness of roundabouts. Roundabouts are poor at handling large traffic volumes, and this has been proven so through coutless studies to the point that it's no longer a debate at town planning levels.

They are also poor at medium traffic levels if there is a large number of vehicles making right turns. The roundabout 'locks'.

Town planners have two tools for junction planning called ARCADY and RODEL. These effectively make the decision for them. It's only in marginal situations where other issues may be taken into account.

Roundabouts are also more dangerous for cyclists (although they're safer for motorists).

[PeckhamRose]

Oh tell us more. What do Arcady and Rodel mean? If decisions are made for the council by such standards what are they asking our opinion for? Grrr.

[Huguenot]

A & R are two software packages developed after monitoring traffic flows through some tens of thousands of junctions over the last thirty years.

Essentially you measure the amount of traffic approaching junctions, and their exit points, and apply the data to the forecasting model. That's where things like those rubber bands across roads spring from (despte the rumour, they're not spying on us, they're counting).

Drop the data in and you can derive an average journey time per vehicle between A & B. The aim is generally to make the average journey time across the day the lowest possible value. Hence sometimes evening penalties at traffic lighted junctions are often a small price to pay for dramatically shorter wait times during the day on average.

The same kind of research tells us that it's better to have just one queue in a waiting room which allocates on a first come first served basis, rather than a queue for each service point. Intuitively the queue seems twice as long, but in fact it prevents one problem siezing up an entire queue for half an hour. The average wait for all visitors is shorter...

[PeckhamRose]

Well thank you.

So one wonders why Southwark Council are asking for our opinions when everything is set and the plans are made.

They asked in their consultation document what Southwark could do to stop people crossing the road without looking. Like it's only a Southwark problem. London boroughs have an overinflated opinion of their own importance. When asked where people live, they'll never say the borough, unless it shares a name with an area. They'll say East Dulwich, then London. It is so ridiculous that there are differences in the different boroughs and even then TfL roads as to how they deal with traffic. My answer was to stop trying to do the impossible, and just remind people to take responsibility, or clone everyone to be like the perfect individuals who work in the highways department of Southwark Council.

Christ is it still only Monday? I been working all weekend and Southwark's streets are the worst to get round. Even my local councillor agrees!