Jump to content

Recommended Posts

StraferJack Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "I know that would be suicide a"

>

> if that's the case why blame the politician - why

> not blame the people who would judge him/her for

> it?



Because some of it is the politicians and party system


Ask people a question, even a political one, you get a straigth answer normally (doesn't mean it's right or you agree) ask a politician a straight question on any thing vaguely contraversial (eg their views on drug legalisation) you don't you get avoidance for fear of not 'being on message' and it's pathetic and alienating.


Not answering a straight question - politicians and spin doctors fault not the peoples....and that's why people get pisse*d off and it's not our fault..just as one example of this.

Btw ? I?m not trying to pick on you Otta. It?s just you expressed an opinion I hear so regularly and I always wonder why people don?t join the dots


If a politician has to be elected to do anything at all, he has to get a critical mass of people behind him. This means finding enough centre ground. This means compromises. This means the people in That Tribe feel their leader isn?t listening to THEM and has gone too far the other way.


It?s a really vicious circle and I don?t know the answer to it


I do know the answer isn?t UKIP mind... as I?ve said many times, OTHER protest parties are available (none of them get the coverage UKIP do tho..)

StraferJack Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Btw ? I?m not trying to pick on you Otta. It?s

> just you expressed an opinion I hear so regularly

> and I always wonder why people don?t join the

> dots



Nope, I expressed an opinion that you mistook for another opinion, then I explained myself, but rather than acknowledging it, you basically said "nope, you meant this".

I reckon you should have to pass a short test on politics before being allowed a vote. Some 20 year olds know the score, I suspect most don't.


At 18 I didn't vote Labour because I wanted to knock that smug grin off of Tony Blair's face. Not the best reason to decide who you want running the country.


Throughout my twenties (or most of them) I just cared about fun and having a laugh with my mates now that I had money to burn (God if only I'd saved some of that).


I always had a moral compass, which isn't much different now to how it would have been at 20. But now I realise that there's a bit more to it than what feels right or wrong.


In honestly it's only since my late 20s that I started really paying attention to the world outside of my life, and now I can't get enough of the depressing bunch of shite. But in all honestly, before that I was voting largely on superficial stuff and who said the right things and sounded like they'd be fairest, I didn't really look any deeper.





Now perhaps I'm alone in that, but I bloody well doubt it, if people are honest with themselves, I suspect a lot of them would hold their hands up and say that they weren't really that switched on to politics until they were pushing 30.

Just to clarify.


I blame politicians for not listening enough to what peole really think through sensible discussion. And as Quids points out, the lack of straight answers often makes me not want to bother with the whole thing at all, and leads to "they're all the bloody same at the end of the day" feelings.



I do not blame the politicians for not being able to say publically "I think we could do better on that and may have misjudged public feeling". They can't do that because they'd get slaughtered by both their opposition, the press, and the keyboard warriors.

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Income Tax...you sure?


Yes, positive. According to polling by YouGov a decent majority (56%) of the public support introducing a 75% tax rate on anyone earning more than a million. Only 31% who oppose it.


And when YouGov asked people at what income level they would like high taxes on the rich to start, the median answer was ?100,000.


> plus Labour haven't been quiet on Zero_hour

> Contarcts or Minimum wage (were you watching their

> conference??)


Yeah, I watched it. And what I gathered is that the minimum wage would go up a bit. By 2020 when inflation will have wiped out it's use. Thanks.


And zero-hours contracts? It's worth noting that Labour's policy doesn't just stop short of the outright ban that some in the party, such as Andy Burnham, would like to see, but actually represents a watered down version of previous proposals.


Back in September, when Miliband addressed the TUC conference, Labour briefed that anyone working for a single employer for more than 12 weeks on a zero-hours contract would be given the automatic right to a full-time contract based on the average time worked over that period. Yet that period has now been extended to 12 months. In other words, workers will now need to wait four times as long for fair treatment. (An additional problem is that employers will simply dismiss workers ahead of the deadline before later rehiring them.)


> But those are 'micro' issues the biggest ones are

> defeceit (ooops, forgot that one David M...and C:)

> ); overall management of the economy and

> Immigration and a bit further down the list the

> NHS. Labour only doing well on one of them.


I'll ignore the economy for now ;-)


You think immigration is higher on the agenda that cost of living. No way. People want food in their bellies and warm houses. They couldn't care less if the guy picking cabbages is from Lithuania.


Looking at wages and bills would hit those targets.


The Tories tried to fight on immigration under Howard and it got them nowhere.

david_carnell Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------


> Interestingly, the public are to the left of Miliband on a number of issues. Rail, energy and

> mail renationalisation, income tax, minimum wage, zero-hour contracts and rent-capping yet on all of

> these issues Labour remain silent.


But aren't some of those just UKIP-style play-to-the-irrational-fears-of-the-masses stuff?


Would rail be any better nationalised? Energy prices in the UK are some of the cheapest in Europe - would nationisation change anything? What would mail renationalisation achieve? How did raising the top level income tax rate in France work for Hollande and would it actually raise any more money? Does rent capping actually work, when you consider rents in Berlin has risen three times the rate of London in the last 10 years?


I want serious policies that make a difference, not idelogical fiddling.

Loz


I'm not giving any of those things a value or merit. I'm just saying it's what the majority want according to polling.


It's also stuff that would sit well among the Labour party activists and the heartland voters who are deserting in their droves to UKIP if last night is anything to go by.


Miliband's current strategy isn't working. I'm presenting options that I believe would increase his support and be popular in the country at large.


Sadly they weren't aimed at you ;-)

It's important to distinguish between what people say they will vote for, and what history shows they actually vote for. UK voters have consistently said in polls that they would support higher taxes to pay for better public services, then voted against it. Obviously, if you ask people whether taxing people earning ?1m+ is a good idea a majority are going to say yes (tho' still only 56%), but I would seriously question whether as a policy that is a game changer. In any event I think people's faith in government to spend money wisely has been seriously eroded, hence the importance of economic competence.


As to the gulf between what people will vote for and what might credibly work in practice, that's another story.

Most people aren't, at heart, xenophobic, but they do lash out and go tribal when they are scared.


If we leave Europe/ban immigration/have a big top rate of income tax/renationalise the railways will the lives of the average Brit be any better? Almost certainly not. The problem seems to be that all of the parties are listening to the solutions being proposed, but not actually trying to understand what is the base cause of the fears.


It's a classic IT issue - people say "I need one of these", when actually having one of those won't solve their actual business pains. Until the politicians understand what is paining the working class, they'll never work out what will be the cure and all that will happen is they will grab for any worthless policy that seems popular.

exactly, and Milliband is falling into populism rather than what's needed so in that sense is already mirroring UKIP except being populist on issues that sit ok in Islington circles and the Guardian - lower rail fares YEAH YEAH, nasty rich tax em, er but not you just those on ?100k plus, energy price capping (any idea what that'll do to investement in our enery infrastructure - give you clue it'll F*ck it up)


I do support an increase in the minimum wage tho.


I'm interested in our economy getting fixed so we can build a better future not 'my party' getting elected.


Not sure if I'll bother voting but it won't be Milliband for sure

But all that is easy to say but it doesn't actually get you elected.


Too many voters DO vote with those who pander to their views and fears. Have you just seen what happened in Clacton? That's not twelve thousand people thinking rationally.


My point was that Miliband could be bold, left-wing and populist all at the same time. I'm not necessarily saying any or all of those policies would be "successful".

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ???? Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > exactly, and Milliband is falling into populism

> rather than what's needed

>

> Though, to be fair, so is Cameron.



Yes, it's a fair point he is too. Very unlikely to get my vote too.

So let me get this right - you chaps all want commitment politicians who have ideological convictions, stick to them and offer bold, radical but pragmatic policies, that are popular (have to get elected) but not populist (spit), that help abate working class grievances and still go down well in East Dulwich?


Yeah. Good luck with that.

StraferJack Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Are people on here starting to equate working

> class with UKIP voters? Because that's not right

> surely?



Indeed, not right.


But then again, they will do best in areas where people are struggling most.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Latest Discussions

    • What outcome would you like? Disciplinary action? Not to have the driver back? Retraining? I know there is alot of pressure on drivers to deliver within a set day. if he slams the gate, is it evidence he is causing damage, or is the noise a irritant to yourself? You could put a sign up or buy a signing asking to close the gate gentle???? can you hear the door bell from the door? he might be ringing, not hearing and therefore knocking. In trhe notes section of the be livery page, there is a note section, although there is not 100 per cent these notes would be read as these drivers are constantly rushing.  I did a google search for you, i found this and you can try the envri website Contact Us | Evri   To complain to Evri, you can follow these steps: Contact Customer Service: Call Evri's customer service at 0330 808 5456 for assistance with your complaint.    1 Write a Letter: Address your complaint to Capitol House, 1 Capitol Close, Morley, Leeds, West Yorkshire, LS27 0WH.    1 Use the Official Website: Visit the Evri complaints page on their official website for detailed instructions on how to submit a complaint.    2 Email or Call for Specific Issues: For issues like missing or damaged parcels, you can email or call 0800 988 8888, which is free to call.    1 These methods will help you effectively communicate your concerns to Evri.   My driver is called anthony, he is brilliant to be honest. I cant fault him.
    • When I have more time and energy, I will look up the actual number of votes cast for each party in that election, rather than the number of seats won. I'm interested to see that you apparently  think that  Boris Johnson did a good job of "leading the country through Covid." Is your memory really that short? I won't stoop to calling Johnson and his cronies names in the way that you seem to think is appropriate for left wing politicians. At least the left wing politicians have some semblance of morals and a concern for people who aren't in some over privileged inner circle and/or raking in money for themselves on the back of an epidemic. I'm not going to open a can of worms on here  by commenting on the disgraceful so called "purge". 
    • Can’t imagine what it must be like you have your doorbell rung harshly.
    • Hi all, Wondering if anyone else in/around SE22 is also having the unfortunate luck of having Evri parcels delivered by a very rude individual? Whenever we have parcels delivered, our front gate is being slammed open and closed, ring doorbell is harshly banged (not pressed) followed by simultaneously banging on the door knocker and slamming the letter box multiple times. Someone is normally home by the time they come in the evening and never has to wait long for an answer. If we’re not home, we speak to them on the doorbell so we do find the actions of this individual unreasonable and rude.  We have tried a couple of times politely asking that they not do this but they are very dismissive and gives a passive-aggressive “have a nice day” reply.  Has anyone been able to contact Evri and successfully had any issues similar to this resolved? We have enough evidence through our doorbell footage but we are lost with what else we can do. We’ve tried asking politely but don’t want our gate or door damaged by someone who simply doesn’t care and lacks basic manners.    If anyone else is having this issue or has any advice on how we can report this, it would be much appreciated. After another dismissive reply to my concern this afternoon, I will be calling Evri tomorrow to raise a complaint. I have lost my patience with them 
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...