Re: Student diversity at Harris Academy East Dulwich

[Otta]

I also suspect that there is an element of snobbery involved.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

I agree with that too Otta.

[*Bob*]

Single sex, suspicion re the 'Harris Brand', a problem with academies in general.. No doubt all these play their part too.

[bornagain]

'Having attended Dulwich Hamlet myself not too long ago, I would say that Hamlet definitely had a representative mix of students and I have some great friends till this day as a result.'

One of my children went to this school (my children attended another ED primary also). I could honestly say that Dulwich Hamlet is not a representative of any part of South London (or any part of London) except Dulwich Village. It is predominently white with ethos that harks back to Britain in the 1960s. For instance they had to do a WW2 project from the BRITISH perspective (could only interview people who lived through the war in this country!!). What kind of diversity was that?

Funnily enough one of my children now attend Harris ED. The OP is quite right that it is more black but if she is comparing it to Dulwich Hamlet then I expect most London schools would be more black (including many private ones).

Personally I think it is more a matter of class rather than the colour of your skin. Knowing children who have attended both schools, contrast in the privilege (for DH) and the lack of (Harris) are startling.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I hadn't given secondaries much thought (my kids still little), but now that I do, I must admit that the idea of sending my daughters to a girls only school isn't all that appealing. Wonder why they don't merge the two to make a co-ed?!

[Penguin68]

If there were to be an issue, it may be one not 'colour' but of culture - being with a group of people all of whom have been born and brought-up in an around SE London is very different from being with a group of people who are first generation immigrants, for whom English is not a first language, and who have few shared cultural experiences or norms. As far as I know, ED and schools around it take in mainly children who are at least second, if not third, 4th or nth generation British - with a lot of shared culture and experience. There are parts of London (and elsewhere in the UK) were being a small minority amongst others who have a shared (and different) culture may cause problems - but (happy to stand corrected) I do not see that being an ED issue.

[bornagain]

Note sure by what you mean by 'culture'? Do you mean culture of parents or teenager? Youth culture is pretty much international these days. Teenagers by their very nature reject culture of parents.

As for ED, many, many children (mine included) who do not come from nth generation British stock but if you meet them they are as British as they come. These kids are London kids. Their culture is London (whereever their parents come from).

[Penguin68]

I was solely suggesting that where the culture was not shared (and SE London Youth Culture may very well not be the same as Youth Culture from somewhere else, particularly non-Western European) then there might be an issue - and was making the point that second generation incomers (from wherever) are more likely to share a culture with other young people than those who had been born and (at last partly) brought-up elsewhere. Refugees from conflict zones may well have a different world view (and different experiences) from those born in SE London. First generation immigrants are those born outside the UK - it is the second generation who will likely be 'London' and 'British'.

[peony68]

I have a son currently in year 7 at Harris Boys Academy East Dulwich , I also have an older son at forest Hill School,in my experience both schools have a fairly equal mix of cultures and ethnicity. My boys are white , but both have friends of different colours and as young men growing up in London I am more than happy for them to have a good range of friends from different cultures . I feel this is good grounding for their futures in accepting everybody. I have never experienced any feelings when visiting either school of unease that my boys would somehow be outnumbered , if anything it was a pleasant surprise to find that things were so evenly balanced. Could I maybe suggest to Melonsmasher visiting HBAED and seeing for yourself , I think you will find a very well run school striving to give all their boys the best education that they can and embrace the full diversity of students who attend .You may also see that the school has just been awarded an Equality Award , which backs their ethos that they will provide the same level of education regardless of race , culture , disability, age , religious belief or sexuality. This can only be beneficial to all boys who attend , in being in a daily environment where they can accept each other.I have many friends who live outside of London who are quite envious that my boys have such a diverse mixture of schoolfriends , as their children go to schools which have high numbers of white children . As I say I feel that my boys have the best of both worlds , and I in no way worry at all about them being in the minority as that simply isn't true in my experience .

[bornagain]

Not sure if you have teenagers Penguin, but music, fashion, film, internet (ie youth culture) are very international, albeit strongly stemming from US be it rap music or TV programmes. Sure different countries have their own indigenous 'culture' but I'm guessing that quite often they run parallel with these.

I am sadly no longer a 'youth' (lol) but I am a first generation immigrant, born abroad and came here as a child with non-English parents. I am 'London' and also 'British', as are my children. Young people tend to live for today and are very quick to adapt and absorb the culture that they find themselves in. I find your views old fashioned, akin to people who ask me 'where are you from?' and when I reply 'London' they say '...but where are you REALLY from?'

Penguin68 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I was solely suggesting that where the culture was

> not shared (and SE London Youth Culture may very

> well not be the same as Youth Culture from

> somewhere else, particularly non-Western European)

> then there might be an issue - and was making the

> point that second generation incomers (from

> wherever) are more likely to share a culture with

> other young people than those who had been born

> and (at last partly) brought-up elsewhere.

> Refugees from conflict zones may well have a

> different world view (and different experiences)

> from those born in SE London. First generation

> immigrants are those born outside the UK - it is

> the second generation who will likely be 'London'

> and 'British'.

[Cedges]

One of my juniors at work grew up in Zimbabwe - she moved here at 16 and is now 28. I am white British born and raised, also 28. You would imagine that being from similar class backgrounds, both pretty much raised on American music, tv and movies and she having been in the London area for the last 12 years, we'd be pretty culturally similar. Nope.

Whilst I agree that a mix of cultures is a good thing, I think its wrong to suggest that just because a bunch of kids all live in SE London that they share a culture.

Additionally, I consider myself luckly to have a great mix of male and female, gay and staright friends, many of which are from my schooldays and I think that has enriched my life no end. (The lack of cultural diversity is more a reflection of the fact my school was pretty white and in Oxfordshire.) I'd never send my (currently fictional) children to a single sex school anymore than I'd choose to send a kid to a faith (essentially single culture) or purposefully-ethinically-undiverse school.

[bornagain]

The key piece of info about your friend is that she came here when she was 16, ie when she was (almost) grown up. In this thread we are talking about students in year 7 up (ie 11+). I don't think we are comparing like with like. BTW you don't say how you and your friend are different culturally - how is she 'different'?

[EDmummy]

*

[Earl Aelfheah]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I also suspect that there is an element of

> snobbery involved.

How come?

[MelonSmasher]

Otta, be easy fam, theres no snobbery innit, thats why I had to put a disclaimer on my post for you man there

[Earl Aelfheah]

Is Harris perceived by some as more 'down market' than other secondarys in the area then?

[LondonMix]

I think since the early Academy program was associated with helping to raise standards in inner city schools, there remains a slight stigma among some.

However, most schools are free schools / academies these days. I don't think Southwark has a single LA secondary anymore so I imagine that will change overtime.

My guess is its less popular because its single sex. In the debate about the new proposed secondary, there appeared to be overwhelming support for ensuring the new secondary is co-ed.

[PeckhamRose]

I found it more difficult being in one particular school where there was a wide breadth of abilities and we were all dragged down to the lowest, meaning I, at the very top end, was bored and under-educated till I was able to get out. The make / brand / type of person you are means zilch, but if you are willing and able to learn and you're in a class with those who are unwilling and unable, there's the problem.

[miga]

.

[James Barber]

Hi miga,

Yes old UK research has suggested pupils from poorer background do less well.

International research shows this should not be happening. The Pupil Premium (bounty per pupil from poorer families) appears to be rapidly helping resolve this.

Last year London schools 63% of pupils from poorer backgrounds went on to university. This is a higher ratio compared to any other part of the country for any socio economic group.

[Jeremy]

That sounds like some pretty shit hot research.

[miga]

.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I'm surprised to hear that there is stigma around Harris - I thought it was generally well regarded. Personally, I don't think the ethnic make up of a school is relevant, but I would prefer to send my daughters to a co-ed. Shame they don't merge the two.

[Curmudgeon]

I thought I would prefer to send my children to co-ed but when I looked around Harris boys for my son 3 years ago I was impressed and happy to put it on my list. He ended up going to Kingsdale and we have been extremely happy. So now it's my daughter's turn and whilst we have been delighted with our son's co-ed education we believe Sydenham Girls will be a much better fit for our daughter.

What I am trying to say is you can't dictate what kind of school your child should go to until they are actually in year 6 and you are looking around the options...the school has to suit the child, no school suits all children. So don't decide now on co-ed or single sex; look around on your own when they're year 5 and then look with them in year 6 and decide then, as much as you can.

(I am still impressed with Harris Boys and think its a great option in the area)

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

I went to an all girls , Waverley , my sister also at Sydenham girls and we both agreed co-ed for our kids . I don't see the point in single sex when we live in a country that is integrated.

A lot of girls found it quite hard to relate to the opposite sex and some just became absolutely boy made because there wasn't any school. I think its part of growing up getting along with all cultures and gender. But different folks , different strokes !