Train journey times from ED to LB

[MarkE]

JimH Wrote:

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> What the hell is wrong with the signals and what

> the hell is congestion at London Bridge?

From what I can tell as a layperson, they've changed some of the track layout, so that some of the tracks that used to be used for outbound are now for inbound, and the other way around too. Previously you'd see a single track gap between inbound trains from South Bermondsey and the others (where the outbound train from London Bridge ran to South Bermondsey), whereas now they run side-by-side.

This affects where the trains crossover tracks, nearer to the station, and for whatever reason they haven't sussed the sequencing to allow them to do it safely, which creates time delays all round.

[JimH]

but see that is part of the problem. I am sure it is not easy moving signals, platforms and sequencing around but surely they have some sort of plan as to how it work going forward. It almost sounds that they move things around and then decide to figure out how it will work once it is actually up and running.

[BrandNewGuy]

FWIW there's a petition here demanding answers and clarity about the LB situation. I doubt it will have any effect whatsoever, but it's nice to let off steam:

https://www.change.org/p/we-deserve-answers-to-the-problems-londonbridgetrains

[EPB]

> https://www.change.org/p/we-deserve-answers-to-the

> -problems-londonbridgetrains

Done!

[James Barber]

I've just received the following email/statement about all this. it makes one wonder whether moving from 6 through and 9 terminating platforms to 9 through and 6 terminating platforms will result in long-term train service reductions for SE london train stations. I suspect we'll need to campaign for osme of thel ocal services to go through LB to Charing Cross to ensure they survive all the changes. Anyway, the statement:

"

Network Rail & Southern statement on London Bridge train station

Network Rail and Southern apologise for the unacceptable disruption and delays to passengers at London Bridge this week resulting in severe overcrowding on the concourse. This is not the level of service that customers deserve, expect or that we want to deliver.

Over the festive break we undertook 16 days of work rebuilding two new platforms, removing and replacing 3km of track and installing new signalling into London Bridge. This work was completed on time.

However, the new timetable has proved challenging to manage. We have reviewed this and made some immediate changes to a small number of evening peak services which will reduce the pressure on the infrastructure and allow us to deliver a more punctual service that passengers deserve.

We will monitor the service this week and assess if any longer term changes are required.

We have reviewed the operation of the station concourse, placed more staff at London Bridge, and implemented additional crowd control measures to separate passengers entering and exiting trains. By the end of the week, we will have additional passenger information screens, so the concourse is used more evenly.

Passengers are asked to check with their train operator before they travel.

Notes:

To improve services for the majority of passengers using trains from London Bridge, the five services from London Bridge to West Croydon have been removed from the evening peak. They were stopping trains that departed at 16.36, 17.06, 17.36, 18.06 and 18.36 and called at New Cross Gate, Brockley, Honor Oak Park, Forest Hill, Sydenham, Penge West, Anerly and Norwood Junction.

"

[EPB]

"However, the new timetable has proved challenging to manage."

Why?

(They sound surprised!)

[KidKruger]

"However, none of these routes offer quite the speed and frequency of the old London Bridge service"

True, but the options are there, albeit less appealing than a fully working LB line.

The ED -> LB is buggered, for some time yet. So it's time to consider alternatives - they clearly are alternatives precisely because they do NOT deliver a carbon copy service.

[Jeremy]

Yep.

[Penguin68]

The removal of all evening rush trains to Croydon halves the number of trains going to the south (Honor Oak Park) of ED, a convenient stop for those of us not crowding around in the north around ED station itself. Scandalous.

[woodland]

How are they allowed to just remove five trains that all go to the same places. This will force a large number of people onto the few trains that operate in a peak 2 hour period. Why not spread the removal of trains across all journeys.

I am so glad I didn't waste money buying a season ticket for this farce of a service.

[JimH]

woodland Wrote:

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> How are they allowed to just remove five trains

> that all go to the same places. This will force a

> large number of people onto the few trains that

> operate in a peak 2 hour period. Why not spread

> the removal of trains across all journeys.

>

> I am so glad I didn't waste money buying a season

> ticket for this farce of a service.

My similar query is why run one of the peak trains to South Bermondsey and not to LB in the morning. No offence to anyone from South Bermondsey but who the hell travels there at that that in the morning if at all (unless there are any Millwall supporters out there).

[Zebedee Tring]

Just wait until next Tuesday when there is supposed to be a bus strike. If they haven't sorted out the LB chaos by then (which is most unlikely), it'll be even worse.

[Jeremy]

JimH - I think the South Bermondsey terminating train (7:40 or something) is still useful for some, as it is (theoretically) followed immediately by an overground train which people can pick up from the same platform at PR or QRP.

[Monkey]

Thank you all for the advice on alternative routes!

[Angharad_L]

Legged it for the 22.40 train last night... Got on.. And went nowhere fast. 15 minute delay to a train on the platform and ready to go!!

Tweeted Southern and they blamed it on 'congestion after the works' and 'signal failures'. Utterly ridiculous.

[SteveUK1978]

Oddly given the horrendous weather this morning (surely an excuse in waiting) the commute was quite good on the 8.10am. Only sat at South B for 3 mins or so. I guess it can work where everything runs to plan. The problem seems to be as soon as there is a small issue anywhere in the LBG areas there is no margin for error and the whole timetable falls apart.

[SteveUK1978]

Something to look forward to next week as well. I think the through services to Charing Cross stop from next week so those people trying to get to the West End are likely to get on the Jubilee Line instead. From an email from TFL today....

Some Tube and London Overground stations including London Bridge Tube station may be exceptionally busy, especially during peak hours. Jubilee line stations between London Bridge and Waterloo and London Overground stations between Sydenham and Canada Water will also be busier than usual. This is while National Rail customers take alternative routes

[KidKruger]

What - there'll be no longer trains from LB to Charing X ?

[Angharad_L]

I got the 8.51 train this morning from ED. It was 5 mins delayed and took 22 minutes.

Sounds like it's only going to get worse!

[ed_pete]

Correct KK - from next week no LB to CX trains until August.

From TFL:

"Between 12 January 2015 and August 2016 Southern (and any permitted route) passengers who currently interchange onto Southeastern services at London Bridge for travel to Charing Cross or Waterloo East will be unable to do so due to changes to the operation of Southeastern services"

[solutions]

One of the most frustrating if not most important things is the so called 'crowd control measures'. The misery starts outside the main entrance to the station when hundreds of commuters are shunted into a sort of corral to shuffle forward slowly into the station. Then once you are in the station there are so many people you are lucky if you can get near the announcement boards to even see what trains are cancelled or might be turning up. Then the crowd control keeping everybody back from the platform fast becoming a larger than safe number of frustrated commuters waiting for the passengers to get off the train that finally arrives and get squeezed past in another narrow walkway. These measures add to the misery, lack of safety and sense that the whole station does not seem to be fit for purpose.

[Annasfield]

The buses are on strike next Tuesday

[Monkey]

These brainless idiots are unable to run trains this morning.

[James Barber]

A lady from Gipsy Hill has started a petition demanding that the fare increase be delayed until they get these services back to some semblance of normal running:

https://www.change.org/p/sign-this-petition-about-the-shambolic-londonbridgetrains

[Jeremy]

SteveUK1978 Wrote:

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> The problem seems to be as soon as there is a small issue anywhere in the

> LBG areas there is no margin for error and the whole timetable falls apart.

I think that's exactly it... the schedule is so tight, there's no room for contingency. So as soon as one train is delayed by 2 mins, trains start backing up and there's insufficient capacity to clear the backlog. I recently heard an honest driver announcing "sorry for the delay, but the reality is that there are just too many trains on too little track".

The loss of LB to Charing X is a further nail in the coffin, but TBH won't make much difference to me as I've basically given up on using LB.