charter school documentation

[DadOf4]

We're some of the lucky ones who managed to get offered a place at the charter school, starting september.

But, has anybody else been caught out by their identification/proof of address requirements?

They are insisting on a child benefit letter and council tax bill (understandable) but they both have to be in a single parents name. (like many people would guess), our council tax bill is in my name and our child benefit is in Mrs Dadof4's name.

Theyre both at the same address and, of course, little Dadof4's birth certificate says we're the parents - I just dont get what they are trying to achieve

Thats not good enough for the charter school. We've now been given a short extension to fix this or we loose the place - [sarcasm] thats not very stressful at all.[/sarcasm]

So far, 2 hours on the phone to HMRC yesterday, Southwark council today

Interested to hear if others have be caught out by this, as I think that they havent really thought this through properly

[Otto]

That is indeed maddening, but, I suppose there are various ways of cheating the system they are trying to put a stop to. How long of an extension did they give you? Hope it all works out --

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

I'm sure if you could show proof of bills with both your names , they would accept your proofs. I never usually have the documents most schools ask for thus I provide alternatives and it's never ever been an issue . They just need to make sure that people aren't cheating the system so as long as you have something showing you are together , they should accept the other documents.

[DadOf4]

that is exactly what is enraging me: there was zero flexibility offered on how they could verify our address/identity. I understand that some probably try to cheat, but their system is far from foolproof (see below)

We have dozens of forms of ID proving that we've both lived here for 10+ years, but charter want to hold their line that this is all they'll accept.I did find their attitude just a little patronising too - felt like she was saying "ah-ha, caught you, you cheat" and you HAVE to do this, with the implied threat of loosing the school place

Both of our kids have been (and are currently at) other local (oversubscibed) schools - neither of whom has ever had a problem with this

The results of my calls today (to HMRC and southwark)make this situation even more bizarre & illogical:

1. HMRC tell me that child benefit letter categorically cannot be seen as a proof of a childs residence. It is simply the address of the beneficiary (of course there is the assumption that the beneficary is caring for the child) If we were separated, my wife could still be that beneficiary and she could be living in Newcastle. The nice lady from HMRC also told me how theyre getting fed up being seen as some form of cheap ID service for schools that simply cant be bothered to verify identities using any other form

2. I got hold of southwark council today and they have agreed to add my wifes name to our council tax. So, problem is actually solved hopefully. But heres the thing: there is ZERO verification done by them on that additional name - I did ask, could I add ANY name? - "yes" was the answer.

So my kid could actually be living in Newcastle with my wife.

I could receive the child benefit here (and council tax) . As long as my names on both, theyre happy.

Totally bizarre

So, only one nights missed sleep for us hopefully, but left wondering why theyre so inflexible around a system that actually doent give them what they need

[landsberger]

Bear in mind that Charter School governors are the admissions authority for the school, NOT the LA. Complaints to the LA about Chartern admissions will result in a referral back to the school. The EFA would probably be your first port of call if you felt Charter were being unreasonable.

[chuff]

I've been wondering about the child benefit thing as my younger son will be applying to The Charter on a sibling place next year. I would expect it to be less of a problem being a sibling application but what do you do if you're not entitled to child benefit?

[landsberger]

They will still expect exactly the same documentation from a sibling application, unfortunately...

[chuff]

As I understood, you would still gain a place on a sibling application even if you moved out of catchment? Not that I have, I'm still at the same address as my eldest's application but if so, why would they need proof of address?

I'm going to be stuck with the child benefit proof. Our accountant advised us to opt out of child benefit payments so we no longer receive any money or paperwork from them. I'm sure this must be fairly common though and I hope there are other ways we can provide documents.

[landsberger]

Presently yes, although Wandsworth Council recently changed this rule for primary and I believe Southwark are looking at it for its community primary schools. They (W/W) limited the sibling rule to people living less than a mile from the school. Unbelievably, parents were actually renting flats near popular schools and putting that down as an address. If you can afford to do that, you might as well go private.

[chuff]

I do live very near to the school and have done for 9 years, I'm just hoping the child benefit paperwork won't cause me problems if they are being inflexible. I do remember on the last application that the child benefit was in my name and different to my sons, which made it not straight forward.

I would think those that move to secure a place either don't want their children to go to private school or that the competition is too fierce and a great number of children wouldn't be offered a place anyway.

[Sol]

Will a medical card be enough to replace the child benefit letter?; you can ask the GP for one and should receive it within 2 weeks

[vanessa520]

This happened to me too, 3yrs ago when my daughter started.

I live with father in law, so council tax in his name and child benefit in mine.

They gave me a very short extension to get it sorted

Would not take any other prove whatsoever, defo no budging. The school did say that this happens every year with some people. With that in mind you would think that they would go down another root of I'd.

Did manage in the end to get it from the one stop in peckham, all done with a lot of hassle!

[sillywoman]

Yes, they require

i) Proof of child benefit letter

ii) Proof of council tax letter with the same name as the person child benefit is paid to on it

iii) child's birth certificate.

It's been that same for all four of my children each time. It's not complex. If you're not on the Council tax (I'm not, hubby is) then you call them & ask them to either send a letter to that effect, or send a renewed bill with our name added to it - they can do that.

To be fair the Charter did send a letter nearly three weeks ago now, with very specific details of what they needed and contact numbers for CHB & council if you needed them. In it they do tell you to call them as a letter "can take up to 10 days to arrive'. Not sure what more you'd have them do for you Dadof4?

(To answer another poster's question - they also state that if you've opted out of CHB you still need to provide the redemption letter from HMRC).

[keane]

Finding this thread annoying as someone who lives 1,500 metres from the school & hasn't got a place this year and are over 70 down on the waiting list despite our next door neighbour getting a place in the first round last year -we are being told that this is a terrible year & that there were 70 sibling places etc etc. I think charter is moving away from being able to call itself a community school & feels more like a private school for those who can afford to live next door to it - so if all I was worrying about was a bit of paperwork rather than going to a school that wasn't even on our list - I don't think i would be worrying atall..

[DadOf4]

Sillywoman

> To be fair the Charter did send a letter nearly

> three weeks ago now, with very specific details of

> what they needed and contact numbers for CHB &

> council if you needed them.

Yes and I, like lots and lots of people I've spoken over the last couple days to made the assumption that when it said "in the same name" - that they sort of meant the same family name. Obviously, bad assumption. I guess, like me, those people combined some logic (what could they possibly expect to achieve by them being in one parents name when they have a birth cert) with the fact that no other school asks for this information in EXACTLY this way - to conclude that surely our docs were OK

Yes, yes - should have noticed it. Yes,yes should have phoned to check.

Yes, yes, their system is clearly flawed otherwise so many people wouldn't be in the sae boat

[chuff]

Keane, a lot of places have historically become available in August when those offered private school places decline their state school place. I hope they do and you get offered a place. !500 metres isn't that far, I think a lot of Turney Road near to the railway bridge struggle to get in on first offers but usually do later on and I reckon that's close to 1500 metres. Good luck.

Thanks sillywoman, if I can indeed request a redemption letter then my problem is sorted.

[bornagain]

Dadof4

"Yes and I, like lots and lots of people I've spoken over the last couple days to made the assumption that when it said "in the same name" - that they sort of meant the same family name."

There have been cases where parents have temporarily 'split up' for the school application so that the mother say moves to the catchment of the desired school into a rented place and the father stays put in a house out of catchment. They miraculously make up once the kid is in the desired school. In other cases a parent with the child moves temporarily to say a grandparent's which is in the desired catchment. Another scam is a child moves temporarily or applies from the home of the separated/divorced parent (in catchment) who is not the official carer of the child (as certified by the child benefit letter) and moves back to main carer once they are in the school. Parents pulling scams are very creative!

It is a pain for a legit parent like you but I think this temporary pain is worth it to catch those who are cheating the system.

[landsberger]

Frankly going to such lengths to get a school place is utterly pathetic.

[DadOf4]

landsberger "Frankly going to such lengths to get a school place is utterly pathetic." - agreed

bornagain - I understand all of those potential scams. I'm sure they happen. But if you read my earlier posts you will see that what Charter ask for can not prevent any of those siuations happening........

child benefit will happily put any address on the letter that they are asked to

southwark council will happily put any name on the bill; from their perpestive, as long as the bill is paid, then they consider that person must be there

[sillywoman]

I think that Southwark council will only put your name on the council tax bill if you are registered as living in the property (electoral role maybe?), hence the complex system adhered to by the Charter.

I guess if your admissions are primarily based on local catchment, you have to be as certain as you can that those taking up places really are local children. I agree with born-again - it can be irritation to those of us who are legit (I had to go back three times one year, very frustrating), but worth it.

[DadOf4]

no - I checked with Southwark. Council tax bills have nothing to do with the electoral role - there is no cross reference there. It is a non-validated name, Southwark just use the assumption that,if somebody with that name is prepared to pay for it, they must be there. Thats why there is an obligation to tell them when you move (and who has moved in after you)

I fully agree that they have to be certain - just think theyre not actually doing that. I'm all up for them weeding out the "cheats". But, from experience, you must build up a set of documentary evidence that somebody lives where they do. Thats why orgs usually ask for multiple pieces of evidence. I think charter feel that theyve got a magic ticket here (and its easy to administer) - but they havent

[minder]

I wouldn't read too much into it and just happily accept that you got a place at The Charter School.