Corporal Punishment in an East Dulwich School

[Guest]

Found on an Internet Forum:

I was a pupil at St. John?s and St. Clements Primary School, situated on the corner of Archdale Road and Northcross Road.

Corporal punishment was part of everyday life in British schools back

in the fifties. Even in the Infants the teachers would punish the

boys by slapping the backs of their legs.

In the Juniors, corporal punishment was always administered on the

bottom and usually by the Headmaster, Mr.Witham. If he caught anyone

misbehaving, he would deal with them on the spot. In such cases he

usually used his hand to deliver a spanking although the cane was

administered for serious offences. The cane was given in the privacy

of his study and only rarely used.

Spankings were not only given for misbehaviour. Anybody presenting

the Headmaster with untidy or sloppy schoolwork was (as we shall see)

likely to end up with a sore bottom.

Mr.Witham took the class for maths to prepare us for the 11 Plus

exam. After completing exercises in class, we were required to line

up at his desk to present our work for correction. I expected nothing

unusual as I placed my exercise book in front of him but I will never

forget his reaction. I even remember exactly what he said -

"I'm not having this kind of work, over my knee".

I did as I was told and waited to feel the first whack on the seat of

my short pants. This was duly administered and then another and

another. I'm not sure how many whacks I received but it must have

been more than the regular "six of the best". It did hurt but

not too much and the humiliation of being smacked on the bottom in front of

my classmates especially the girls, was punishment indeed.

It was the lesson before the midmorning break and as extra punishment

I was made to stay behind and rewrite the pages neatly. I must have

felt very sorry for myself, sitting in an empty classroom rubbing my

sore behind when all my classmates were out in the playground

enjoying themselves.

I saw Mr.Witham years later. The school was being used as a voting

station during an election and he was acting as a official. I

introduced myself and as he stood up, I was surprised how short he

was. I recently heard that he had died which saddened me as he was

liked by most of his pupils.

[Mark]

It was part of life later than the fifties! I was at junior school in the 70s/80s (in Bath) and we were given six of the best with the dap or cane if we were out of order. Teacher used to put a chalk cross on the sole of the dap so after he'd punished you, you'd have a chalk cross on the arse of your shorts. It wasn't known as corporal punishment to us, we just knew not to be out of order.

[Guest]

Bring it back I say! Sort out the asbos and chavs!

Too much PC BS in this day and age - no wonder kids have no respect + more power than the adults.... and the cheeky little feckers know it too!

[Guest]

I went to Dulwich Hamlet Junior School in the 1970s and Mr Dartnell, the Headmaster, ran it like a prep for a grammar school for all that it was a state owned school. If you misbehaved you got a ruler across the palm of your hand from your teacher, and if you really misbehaved you were sent to see Mr Holmes, who was 6'4" and seriously intimidating (not that at that height he had to try).

Mr Dartnell used to walk across the playgrounds every lunchtime, we had two because there were two main buildings, and there would be a parting of the waves marking his progress and he would stop and talk to anyone on the way. Do Head Teachers (I believe that is the PC term) leave their offices now? He and all the male teachers were 'Sir' without question, and all the female teachers were 'Miss' - even if married. There were annual prize giving assemblies and Mr Dartnell would shake the proferred paws and say "Jolly good, well done."

One of the male teachers, Mr Henry, had also taught my mother, uncle and aunt at a school in Camberwell in the 1950s; mum came to a parents evening one day and I couldn't understand why she was trying to be invisible. It turned out that she had seen Mr Henry and was too embarrassed to come forward. As it turned out she wasted her time because he had recognised her straight away, despite 20 years having gone by, and told me the next day to say 'hello' for him.

We had school football and cricket teams, the latter run by Mr Henry, and the annual Nativity play run by Mrs Lumsden. We were taught French by Mrs Porter. Mrs Harrap ran the rounders matches and Mrs Selvum-Holly the choir. After Mrs Porter retired Southwark in its wisdom did away with the French teaching on the grounds, allegedly, that it was elitist. We had a remedial class as well for the children who had difficulties of one kind or another, I don't think those are allowed any more.

I remember shivering in my classroom even wearing my coat during the Winter of Discontent, because the coal for the school's heating system could not be delivered; and the queues for bread in Dulwich Village - unthinkable now.

The expectation was that everyone would go on to secondary school; the ones to avoid then were William Penn - at the time all boys and with serious problems - and Kingsdale, mixed and with serious problems. The former is now The Charter School and parents fight to get their children in and Kingsdale is also I believe now sought after.

I think I have moved off the point here, but we would never have dreamed of behaving the way that I see school children behaving now, nor would we have been allowed to. I know it is a bit hypocritical to speak about discipline without having children of one's own, but the obsession with 'rights' as opposed to 'responsibilities' has definitely been damaging.

[azrazakir]

I know this is a very old thread but Amelie your account of life at Dulwich Hamlet reminded me of my years there too. I was in Mrs Harrap's class in the 3rd and 4th year and have clear memories of my 2nd year teacher, Mr Phelps, "boxing" the ears of any naughty boys!

[mynamehere]

boys hit left right and centre in my primary as well

[landsberger]

Corporal punishment is one of those dog whistle issues that brings a certain type of person to a froth demanding its reinstatement. Thankfully, it has long since been abolished - if not for any other reason, the fact that it was completely ineffective, and was more about the feelings and the frustration of the giver to the receiver. No-one who was caned or slapped was actually deterred from taking action, as anyone such as myself who grew up when it was in full swing, will attest. "kids have no respect + more power than the adults" because PARENTS - not teachers and authority figures - refuse to discipline children. As a school governor, I have never known such levels of parental objection to punishment, sanctions or complaints about behaviour. I can guarantee if we had corporal punishment, the same parents demanding its reintroduction, would be screaming like bats if their child was disciplined.

[Catalyst]

Thankfully, it has long since been abolished - if not for any other reason, the fact that it was completely ineffective, and was more about the feelings and the frustration of the giver to the receiver. No-one who was caned or slapped was actually deterred from taking action, as anyone such as myself who grew up when it was in full swing, will attest.

You and your mates must have been particularly strong willed. However I still wouldn't advocate it's return as I saw adults go over the line too many times.

[JohnL]

Catalyst Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Thankfully, it has long since been abolished - if

> not for any other reason, the fact that it was

> completely ineffective, and was more about the

> feelings and the frustration of the giver to the

> receiver. No-one who was caned or slapped was

> actually deterred from taking action, as anyone

> such as myself who grew up when it was in full

> swing, will attest.

>

> You and your mates must have been particularly

> strong willed. However I still wouldn't advocate

> it's return as I saw adults go over the line too

> many times.

Not ED but ..

I remember girls complaining in our school that they had detention

whilst the boys got the slipper.

We were all queued up waiting for it (about 40 for walking on the grass)

After the first 5 the deputy head got bored and let everybody else off.

[jimbo1964]

The OP's account of life at St John's is very different to my experience in the 1970's. It was a lovely place to be and I have nothing but happy memories.

[PeckhamRose]

I do think we as a society have collectively more power than we realise but we're more insular now burying our heads into our phones. A woman on the 343 the other day, who looked and sounded to be of African origin (see? if I'd said "African" many would have said, "How do you know? Why bring up her race?") was screaming at her perfectly good little boy to sit and behave, which he was doing. And she yelled at him "Do you want another beating? Legs TOGETHER!" He looked absolutely terrified of her. And no-one said a word to her. I just said, "He's a perfectly good little boy! Why are you threatening to physically abuse your child?" She glared at me and he was terrified. Had I not been in a hurry I might have got off and followed her. If everyone on that bus, or at least more than I had stood up to this bitch, maybe she'd have calmed down. Maybe the poor kid had it coming worse because I challenged her. I'd recognise her again though. We just need to take collective action against this as much as we need to take collective action to support and encourage parents to discipline their kids. But that ain't gonna happen so I guess we'd better stop whinging about it and soak up the sad consequences.

[Ridgley]

There nothing wrong in smacking your child when it is appropriate, I was lucky with my daughter my look was enough.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Ridgley Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There nothing wrong in smacking your child when it

> is appropriate, I was lucky with my daughter my

> look was enough.

There is always something wrong with striking another person. If they're a child, it's even worse.

[intexasatthe moment]

Well done PeckhamRose .I never know what to do in such circumstances apart from smiling sympathetically at the child .

But I think it's good that the boy heard someone saying that he was actually being good and well behaved .And that you named what was happening to him.

Well put rahrahrah.

[Ridgley]

Get over yourself rahrahrah I will raise my child as I see fit, the problem with society today is there lack of discipline. My daughter is well adjusted and respectful young women now and treats others with respect.

So who cares what you think.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Rather quick to anger there Ridgley. Feeling a bit smacky?

[Earl Aelfheah]

BTW, there is plenty of evidence that smacking is ineffective in disciplining children:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lisa-belkin/spanking-is-wrong_b_1659964.html

[Luoisa]

lol

[Ridgley]

I stand by my post rahrahrah

[Earl Aelfheah]

look, I wasn't attacking you personally. I was smacked as a kid and I don't think it means I had 'bad'parents. But I personally don't think hitting children is helpful and most of the research seems to suggest the same.

[exdulwicher]

More the threat of punishment this one. I was at Alleyn's in the 90's. Occasionally we used to get kids from William Penn (as it was then) invading the playing fields.

This happened one Thursday which was CCF day and the School Serjeant, fed up with these uninvited visits, grabbed 4 sixth-form army cadets all in their combat jackets and boots, issued them with an SA80 each from the school armoury and marched out across the playing fields towards them. Unsurprisingly, the visitors decided they no longer wanted to be on site and legged it but the Serjeant simply yelled "YOU BOYS - STOP RIGHT THERE!"

Maybe it was the fear of getting shot but they stopped, he summoned them over and, surrounded by his armed guards, delivered the mother of all bollockings to them.

We never had any problems with William Penn after that!

[Earl Aelfheah]

That's what we need, guns in school to instill discipline. If more children had the threat of being shot hanging over their head, society wouldn't be in the mess it's in today.

[Angelina]

How easily the point can be missed.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I wasn't being entirely serious you know (and I'm aware that it wasn't what exdulwicher was suggesting)

[Angelina]

:-)