Your right to protest

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Huguenot Wrote:

Perhaps they could hold their events in fields where there's nothing to trash?

Please keep them well away from our green and very pleasant fields!

Loss of hedgerows has been identified as a factor in the decline of many plant and animal species traditionally associated with farmland.

Reasons for hedge loss include changes in farming practices, development, damage caused by straw and stubble burning , spray drift, neglect and indiscriminate trimming.

The last thing that we need is the loss of further hedgerows because of the actions of some of these Guys.....:)

[macroban]

Has Hugenot gone native?

The Singaporean way:

http://www.mha.gov.sg/news_details.aspx?nid=MTM5OQ%3D%3D-3BtUG%2B2xe3A%3D

http://www.sgpolitics.net/?p=2558

http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-37501620090117

[Huguenot]

I wouldn't hold up Singapore's rights to public assembly as a beacon for others to follow, but it would also be silly to try and judge Asian countries by western standards. They believe in corporal punishment for example.

Singapore only achieved independence during violent upheaval just over 30 years ago in a region riven by turmoil and civil unrest. This is within most resident's lifetimes, and memories are long over here.

The local mindset for political debate has been demonstrated recently in both Thailand and Malysia, where protestors overran the regional equivalent to the G7 meeting, and created a city centre riot to burn maths books because of the use of English text.

It's not in the nature of the local communities to protest peaceably, they feel more comfortably with highly polarised polemic, agitation, and an emotional mindset verging on hysteria. A bit like some of the ED borders crew.

Whilst stringent, technical restrictions such as those on protests (for example acquiring a permit) have created a community in Singapore that generates close to US$50,000 income per head (ten times local averages), that is peaceable, very welcoming and only a wee bit boring.

The police are charming and friendly.

Horses for courses an' all that.

[louisiana]

Can anyone enlighten me about the law and/or railway byelaws re being on a station concourse? My doubt is: is it legal/permissible to be on a station 'concourse' i.e. where the shops and cafeterias are, without a valid ticket? Do you actually need to have a valid ticket to go into Boots and Smiths and the sandwich shop, and to stare at the train departures and arrivals board? Obviously you need a ticket for a train, and no doubt at least a platform ticket - if they still exist - to go on a platform, but...

Situation: Paddington station concourse Sat eve was over-run with police (ordinary police, not railway police) and two van loads of police dogs, for no apparent reason. Police officers demanded to see my ticket and if I didn't have one I was breaking the law. They also demanded to know where I was going (destination).

No doubt they might claim there were 'terrists' about, though to my eyes the station concourse looked pretty quiet for a Saturday evening.

[Marmora Man]

Louisiana, with no knowledge at all I would assume that the shopping concourse, ticket office and routes to and fro must be open to the public (how else would they buy their tickets?) - tho' it may not fall within the legal definition of a public byway as a company must own the land.

There is probably a bye law somewhere that allows the railway / station owner to shut off access for particular reasons. However, for police to be asking to see your ticket just because you are at a station seems extreme - and only just short of asking a person to identify themselves on the street when there is no suspicion of an offence having been committed - which is not allowed. I'm sure you would have been within your rights to not to have shown a ticket / given any identity - tho' the hassle factor would probably have been high.

You might consider bring it to your MP's notice and seeking clarification that way. I would certainly recommend following it up in some fashion. Only by vigilance can we maintain the liberty of individuals in a surveillance society.

[BigPhil]

you dont need a ticket to be standing on a railway concourse. the ticket is only required if you plan a journey. and then its only needed once you proceed through the barriers.

The example of this is the T mobile ad at liverpool st station. most of the people came from the street , did the ad , and then left via the street.

The police may have been responding to vagrancy alerts, this is common when flushing out bag theieves , homeless people using the station and other suchlikes. Paddington is a high risk area for thieves and its a common occurance to see the police do inspections

[red devil]

ergo...Louisiana looks like a vagrant...;-)

[mockney piers]

I do worry when police bend the truth and use bullying and their 'authority' to achieve their ends, it must be the thin end of the wedge surely.

Breaking the law by being on the concourse without a ticket? Absolutely ridiculous.

Another example of officiousness masked by lies and half truths, celebrated incident of PCSO trying to stop someone filming.

http://current.com/items/88856223/you_can_t_picture_this.htm

[louisiana]

I was actually walking from the station entrance on Praed Steet towards the ticket machines at the far end (West) by the ticket office.

But then I did have a camera around my neck...

[louisiana]

Do the police really have nothing better to do?

Is this what you and me pay them for?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/16/police-delete-tourist-photos

[Brendan]

Is this fucking Soviet Russia?

That dystopian future people are so worried about has already happened.

[jimmy two times]

You've got to hand it to Nicky Thomson, the lady who was assaulted by the copper. She protests against capitalism, gets roughed up and then hires Max Clifford to sell her story.

[Huguenot]

LOL!

[archic]

I am so for street demos and other forms of public protests. But do they work in the UK? 1million people against the war had no influence on the governement. Look at France, people go on strike and protest massively: result is that the government listens and find compromises. 4000 bikers went to demonstrate at Westminster Council against the bike parking charge: result: f... all.

I think Uk needs a "revolution Francaise" to chop a few heads off and start from fresh: FSA for example or naybe even the queen ??? :)

[mockney piers]

I'm inclined to agree. Peaceful marches don't influence government.

French farmers and fishermen may be a pain in the arse, but they sure as hell get their way a great deal.

Not sure the fishermen will this time as there aren't actually enough fish to fill their quota demands, but hey, reality bites (or in this case, doesn't).

[Brendan]

archic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think Uk needs a "revolution Francaise" to chop

> a few heads off and start from fresh: FSA for

> example or naybe even the queen ??? :)

The UK needs to vote in a different political party who will listen to the people rather than just seesawing between 2 parties with almost identical political philosophies who have and will probably continue to piss all over the populace.

[onvisa]

It is very interesting that the consensus on here is that you do have aright to protest>

Unfortunately you don't have any such 'right' in the eyes of the law. So if you are protesting you can certainly expect the police to do all in their power to bring the streets back to a state of order.

as for inprisonment without due process, give me a break. You chose to take part in an unlawful gathering and so the police acted within their rights in this instance.

Still no excuse for the brutality on the day from both sides. At least the police weren't so full of cowardice as to wear neckerchiefs to cover their faces like the pathetic rent-a-crowd.

[louisiana]

No, they wore balaclavas (on the date of the G20 demos).

[onvisa]

Yeah and they carried swords just like in Crimea!!

[louisiana]

So tell us, onvisa, what is a *good* reason for wearing a balaclava (under your riot helmet) at a demonstration in April in the UK?

And a *good* reason for removing/covering your police number? Given that the big boss police man says you shouldn't.

[jimmy two times]

As far as I'm aware it's not actually a balaclava but is some form of protective clothing that is flame retardant should the wearer be pelted with a petrol bomb or suchlike.

[jimmy two times]

As far as I'm aware it's not actually a balaclava but is some form of protective clothing that is flame retardant should the wearer be pelted with a petrol bomb or suchlike.

[ratty]

I have been on two demos in my whole life. Both of which ended in violence.

First was "Grants not Loans" in 1988. Ended up in a load of students gettign their heads kicked in by the peelers. Did they deserve it - no fooking doubt when a load of hoolies shouted, "Tool up and do the old Bill" and a few others tried to divert from the route and take Westminster Bridge. Twas a funny day and we all ended up bladdered in some lambeth pub then a few of us popped down the Queen Anne!

Second was Poll Tax. This was downright fooking nasty, but, once again, the protestors started it, so can hardly complain when thet get a good fooking hiding in my opinion!

Just my opinion loikes!

[ratty]

I have been on two demos in my whole life. Both of which ended in violence.

First was "Grants not Loans" in 1988. Ended up in a load of students gettign their heads kicked in by the peelers. Did they deserve it - no fooking doubt when a load of hoolies shouted, "Tool up and do the old Bill" and a few others tried to divert from the route and take Westminster Bridge. Twas a funny day and we all ended up bladdered in some lambeth pub then a few of us popped down the Queen Anne!

Second was Poll Tax. This was downright fooking nasty, but, once again, the protestors started it, so can hardly complain when thet get a good fooking hiding in my opinion!

Just my opinion loikes!

[mockney piers]

"Unfortunately you don't have any such 'right' in the eyes of the law. So if you are protesting you can certainly expect the police to do all in their power to bring the streets back to a state of order.

as for inprisonment(sic) without due process, give me a break. You chose to take part in an unlawful gathering and so the police acted within their rights in this instance."

fuck me, Franco would have loved you.