Beer Drinking in the Goose Green Playground

[robbin]

DF - really? That's your level of debate?

Oimissus - it's not illegal to drink (if over 18) in parks, so far as I'm aware. Only if there's a CPPO designated for that area. I know there is one for Coventry City Centre because of all their probs (it was all over the news at the time - because it was new). I am not certain, but would be extremely surprised if it is illegal in PR or Dulwich Park.

[Siduhe]

I wasn't aware it was illegal. Southwark's own website talks about the alcohol control areas in the following terms:

The alcohol control area was put in place to deal with problems of street drinking; alcohol-fuelled violence and associated antisocial behaviour. This means police and wardens can confiscate alcohol from anyone causing a nuisance in public. If they refuse to comply it could lead to arrest and/or a maximum fine of ?500.

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200030/community_safety_and_enforcement/405/drugs_and_alcohol/3

The way I read that, it's not illegal but police can step in if it becomes an issue. There may be something which has been passed on top of this. James, can you perhaps clarify?

Another bit of the Southwark website seems to make clear that drinking in public is not illegal.

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200030/community_safety_and_enforcement/405/drugs_and_alcohol/4

[robbin]

Dulwich Fox wrote:

"Yes it would be nice to have a picnic in the park with a bottle of wine or a few chilled beers,

but who dictates who can and who can't. As long as they are of drinking age there cannot be any discrimination.

So as it stands there is no public drinking.. "

You seem to hold a very firm view on the whole illegality issue DF. Can you enlighten us as to the basis on which you contend it is (such) a crime? Or have you held such a staunch view on the subject just for the 45 mins or so since you read James Barber's comment?

[Earl Aelfheah]

Sounds like there is some ambiguity here, maybe I'll hold off catching that flight to the Costa del Crime.

[JohnL]

So if you're discreet - there's no issue.

There is an assumption (the way the guidelines are written) about what they mean by street drinkers.

[robbin]

A street drinker is generally defined something like this -

"a person who drinks very heavily in public and, at least in the short term, is unable or unwilling to control his or her drinking"

Not a mum or dad in a park.

[Sue]

Putting aside any question of legality, I really can't see any difference between having a drink when looking after a child in a park playground and having a drink when looking after a child in a pub playground.

If you're incapable of looking after the child as a result, that's a different matter, but surely unrelated to the location??

[robbin]

Indeed, Sue. I agree.

If it's one can of beer (a half pint or so) then plainly you would not be incapable. If you are on a binge, then that's plainly different - wherever you are.

[Jeremy]

I also agree with Sue. If a parent looking after a child was actually drunk, that would be different.

[Burbage]

I don't think there's any ambiguity. There is no by-law against drinking in public, and that's fairly unambiguous.

The only by-law applicable in this instance would be 15 (1) of the "Byelaws for pleasure grounds, public walks and open spaces" of 2007 (available from the antisocial behaviour section of Southwark's website), which states: "No person aged 14 years or over shall enter or remain in a designated area which is a children?s play area unless in charge of a child under the age of 14 years."

For further clarification, Southwarks' perennially helpful Drugs and Alcohol page states that "Drinking in public is not illegal", which seems as unambiguous as you can get.

Aside from by-laws, Southwark does have a designated Alcohol Control Area brought in the wake of one of Blair's little fit of supra-judicial and anti-democratic legislation. However, as a tucked-away page on their website states, although this covers the majority of Southwark, the posh and pointy bit of the borough, consisting of East Dulwich, College and, naturally, Village wards, has always been exempt from such vindictive and high-handed rules, presumably on account of hosting a self-evidently better class of citizen.

[*Bob*]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I also agree with Sue. If a parent looking after a

> child was actually drunk, that would be different.

What about if the the child is drunk as well? Is that a problem? (Asking for a friend)

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Tell your 'friend' that if they're under 10, it should be okay - that's when criminal responsibility comes into play.

[Jeremy]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> What about if the the child is drunk as well?

A couple of beers (max) is OK. Giving kids neat spirits is frowned upon.

[*Bob*]

They can have a gin with their meal though, can't they? Like they do in France?

It's good to start them young. Otherwise you end-up like in America, where grown met hit 21, get a keg in and spend the evening getting their knobs out and punching cattle.

[*Bob*]

Often at the same time.

[Jeremy]

So I take it you're against a sneaky beer while bob jr is on the swings?

[*Bob*]

Personally, I think the parents who set the really bad example are the ones who gasp with horror should a puff of fag smoke or a waft of liquor come within ten feet of their spawn's nostrils.

For it is these parents who will surely launch the jobsworth dullards of the future into society - the ones who the rest of us will be stuck next to at parties before pretending we need a wee.

[david_carnell]

I can't believe I've been to Goose Green playground WITHOUT a drink now... it seems so sensible when you think about it.

Takes the edge off the pirate ship game 10 times in a row.

[Otta]

I'm a little bit torn on this. I have no moral issue with it at all, so long as you're not pissed.

And yet, I dunno, I'd just feel a bit scummy doing it.

I'm no goodie goody, but drinking in a kid's playground just wouldn't feel right for me.

Not that I'd care if someone else was doing it, and I totally agree that we shouldn't be hiding kids away from booze. And I would much rather see someone watching their kid in the playground whilst enjoying a cold beer than totally ignoring their kid in a beer garden whilst drinking and chatting with friends.

[Mick Mac]

Otta Wrote:

>

> I'm no goodie goody, but drinking in a kid's

> playground just wouldn't feel right for me.

>

>

I agree.

[DulwichFox]

I've even heard of people having a drink when they pick their children up from Nursery ..

DulwichFox

[Jeremy]

TBH I probably wouldn't do it myself, but if other parents do... their kids, their choice.

[DulwichFox]

Just found this:-

NEW LAW COULD TARGET PARENTS WHO DRINK ALCOHOL IN FRONT OF KIDS AS CHILD ABUSERS

A new law in the UK which will criminalize the ?emotional abuse? of children could target parents who drink alcohol in front of their children as child abusers, giving the state an opportunity to snatch kids on the flimsiest of pretexts, with parents being punished with up to ten years in jail.

Under the new ?Cinderella Law,? denying love to children could be characterized as a crime in the same league as physical or sexual abuse.

The definition of such ?abuse,? being solely in the hands of the state, opens up a pandora?s box of potential behaviors that could warrant government interference in family life.

Writing for the Independent, Frank Furedi, a professor of sociology at the University of Kent, warns that virtually any behavior that could be perceived as harmful to children could be ensnared by the new law.

http://www.infowars.com/new-law-could-target-parents-who-drink-alcohol-in-front-of-kids-as-child-abusers/

Might be a bit extreme but then there are those out there that have very strong views on the topic

DulwichFox

[robbin]

Posted by robbin Today, 01:31PM

"Dulwich Fox wrote:

"Yes it would be nice to have a picnic in the park with a bottle of wine or a few chilled beers,

but who dictates who can and who can't. As long as they are of drinking age there cannot be any discrimination.

So as it stands there is no public drinking.. "

You seem to hold a very firm view on the whole illegality issue DF. Can you enlighten us as to the basis on which you contend it is (such) a crime? Or have you held such a staunch view on the subject just for the 45 mins or so since you read James Barber's comment?"

So, Dulwich Fox, can you enlighten us?

No, I thought not.

[Earl Aelfheah]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I've even heard of people having a drink when they

> pick their children up from Nursery ..

>

> DulwichFox

Err, not sure I should own up to it, but yes, I've done this too.... swung by the Great Exhibition on the way back from nursery for an apple juice and a packet of crisps (for the kids) and a pint (for me). Starting to feel like a rather bad parent.