Discussions about schools in ED - disturbing?

[bawdy-nan]

I have read the posts. Mostly people are concerned, quite rightly as it turned out, about whether or not they will get a local school place. Some children have been offered places in schools 2 1/2 miles and several bus journeys away. The local authority were aware of the likely pressure on places and didn't plan for it.

This seems a completely reasonable and relevant area of concern.

[*Bob*]

So - to extrapolate - what you're getting at is that even though my grandmother could afford to buy a punnet of blackberries.. she was being entirely mercenary in picking the free ones as opposed to leaving them for those who couldn't afford their own?

Jeez.. I never thought of it like that.

[snorky]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> So - to extrapolate - what you're getting at is

> that even though my grandmother could afford to

> buy a punnet of blackberries.. she was being

> entirely mercenary in picking the free ones as

> opposed to leaving them for those who couldn't

> afford their own?

>

> Jeez.. I never thought of it like that.

More like, you Gran decided that she wanted to run a blackberry farm, but knew its would take 3 years for the plants to mature, so she decided to get up early & take all the free blackberries when they came available and sold them via the punnet, meaning that there wwre no blackberries left for people who could not afford to buy them from the market.

After 3 years, she abandoned the free blackberries plan to sell her own reared ones, knowing fine well that her rapacious collecting of wild blackberries had decimated the stock and reduced them to produce very few decent berries any longer.these are the fruits that the poor were able to harvest.

[*Bob*]

But she always said - my dead Gran - that if the poor wanted to get the best pick of the blackberries then they could always get their fat, jobseeking arses out of bed early, instead of lazing around watching Jeremy Kyle, smoking Park Drive and waiting for their giro.

[*Bob*]

She was a wonderful woman.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Did your gran know nothing of the mores of gleaning?

[*Bob*]

I don't think she ever went to Scotland, no.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

A venerable lady no doubt, but obviously a sassenach.

[antijen]

cassius: I understand why you wouldnt be bothered in the same way as someone going through the school admission procedure, and I also understand that some people may not have been affected to much in there adult life by there schooling, but depending on where you went to school, say a school where it is mostly children from estates or a school with a good reputation ( and it was common for lots of kids at 7yrs to then go private), I believe it could make the diffrence from being frightened to go out on the streets alone rather than feeling you have as much right to walk the streets as the next one. I believe the education system breeds class difference. Sorry I wasnt clearer but it takes me so long for me to type.

[tiddles]

hmm don;t understand why people are so surprised at parents' concern for lack of local school places?

most kids go to school. It plays very big part of their life and social life. It is quite nice if they can walk there with their parents and other kids who live nearby. They can walk round to their mates after school maybe stay for tea if they like. So it is not unreasonable to be cheesed off if going to primary school involves a round trip entailing several bus rides or a schlep in the car - the going round to your friends has to be organised days in advance -the spontenaity of local living goes out the window. Some people choose to go private and therefore opt for the car journey thing HOWEVER most people (regardless of class - quite insulting to suggest that only 'middle class' people care about their kids and school) want to be able to walk to the/a local school. I didn't read the posts as a hysterical goodrich/heber thing, rather not being allocated anywhere local or had even heard of. rant over...

[Lizziedjango]

* new improved non-offensive Snorky *

LOL.

[Jessie]

Snorky, I'd keep off the family room section if it rankles you so much. You make massive assumptions about parents who use the EDF - I'd be happy for my son to be at ANY school within walking distance. It's not an issue of being pushy, it's an issue that we deserve a primary school place in our local community. I don't know if I'm working class or middle class, probably a bit of both, but class is irrespective to the fact my son's happiness is my main priority in life.

[snorky]

Jessie Wrote:

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> Snorky, I'd keep off the family room section if it

> rankles you so much. You make massive assumptions

> about parents who use the EDF - I'd be happy for

> my son to be at ANY school within walking

> distance. It's not an issue of being pushy, it's

> an issue that we deserve a primary school place in

> our local community. I don't know if I'm working

> class or middle class, probably a bit of both, but

> class is irrespective to the fact my son's

> happiness is my main priority in life.

of course you deserve a local walkable place, as does everybody - the reason this is not working out is the postcode jiggling manipluation by the primary school achievement obsessives that seem to spend their lives fretting over how to get into a higher ranked school - how many kids at DKH live within walking distance ? not as many as you would expect surprisingly - the clue is in the rankings.

I have complete sympathy for people who cannot get into their local school when others were savvy enough to play the system for long enough to get an advantage.

Is this how cut throat we have become - using the kids as proxy weapons to cement our own aspirational ambitions and to shit on others ?

very poor show

[Jessie]

I know a lot of parents in ED and don't know anyone who's been that manipulative of the system. It's more political than that. There are too many children in ED and not enough places; instead of providing extra classrooms it seems the council wish to send some children to further away schools which are undersubscribed.

[plimsoul]

"Is this how cut throat we have become - using the kids as proxy weapons to cement our own aspirational ambitions and to shit on others ?"

why don't you tell us instead of pretending to ask a question? you seem to know everything ... i have a great image of parents throwing their kids shit at others. this could be a new trend down LL on a saturday morning.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

I do. I know of a family who lives in ED who were rich enough to rent a house temporarily in Dulwich Village to get their children into school. Once secured, they moved back to their real home.

I used to work in a church - the shenanigans that went on at school application time were quite shocking. 'Devoted' parishoners would seasonally come out of the woodwork.

[Asset]

Thankfully faith schools have to have 50% of their intake from the community now, although I'm sure a bit of the temporary church attendance still goes on.

[snorky]

Asset Wrote:

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> Thankfully faith schools have to have 50% of their

> intake from the community now, although I'm sure a

> bit of the temporary church attendance still goes

> on.

They had to in order to reap the benefits of taxpayer funding their school IIRC- quite rightly

The Telepgraph hill area is like a writ large game of real estate musical chairs at the minute,as earnest victims scrabble to buy/rent/lease somewhere that will give them a leg up into Haberdashers & avoid the expense of private skooling

[Siduhe]

Going back to your original post, snorky - I'm a bit confused. It seems to be ok for us to discuss the issues you're raising about lack of school places for local children and the hoops that some parents are willing to jump through to get a good education for their children, but not ok (vis "disturbing") for parents to do the same on the Family Room board?

I may have missed the thread that triggered your original post, but a quick review suggests most people are raising the same concerns that you are - and they have the added interest of actually having children who are going through the process.

For myself, I'm in the "don't hate the player, hate the game" camp, but the problems aren't limited to ED or even Southwark, and it's a real issue for families in the area.

Can't help but wonder if new "non-offensive" snorky may have been replaced by new "just seeing if you can get a rise out of one particular sector of the board" snorky?

[snorky]

To be honest, its was more of an exploration into how obsessed some parents are becoming with regard to schools in the area - unhealthily so IMHO

At what point did going to the lcoal school, cease to be a priority and going to the best local school take over ?

I was hoping for a discussion on how values have changed, possibly with a loose reference to the legacy of '80s UK - I am more interested in the emergence of the aggressive competitive consumer of late than a roundabout discussion of the minutae of local skools - Skool specific discussion ios rightly for the family room

An example - I see teachers hangagued on parents evenings by stroppy mothers, demanding

" why are you not accomodating the more gifted children ?"

( Child is not gifted BTW, just a normal 6/7 year old kid who gets an hour private tuition a night )

when did it all change in ED ?

[woofmarkthedog]

snorky Wrote:

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> Family room.Mmmmm

>

> Amongst the buggys for sale and various

> breastfeeding tips, is the slighty creepy

> obsessivness of posts on Schooling, ranking &

> fighting for places, seem a little disturbing ?

>

> Does this happen on all sites or is it just ED

> with this penchant for early years educational

> fetishment ?

-------------------------------------------------------

Simple question.

Are you a parent ?

Yes , odd post.

No , You havn't a clue what it's all about then.

Grr

W**F

*they think it's a bit weird out here *

[Siduhe]

snorky Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> To be honest, its was more of an exploration into

> how obsessed some parents are becoming with regard

> to schools in the area - unhealthily so IMHO

>

> At what point did going to the lcoal school, cease

> to be a priority and going to the best local

> school take over ?

All good points IMHO. A massive part of the problem is the actual policy - i.e. that all parents should have a choice about where to send their children to school. If you accept that some schools are better and some worse, then people will always want to do the best for their children and "choose" the perceived better schools and some of those people will end up being disappointed. If the perception of choice/right to choose didn't exist, then you might see a better distribution of both pupils and resources across all local schools.

However, not much that those within the system can do, save for try and make the best of it [by which I do not mean renting extra houses etc], and I can understand why people affected want to discuss and share their experiences.

[snorky]

woofmarkthedog Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> snorky Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Family room.Mmmmm

> >

> > Amongst the buggys for sale and various

> > breastfeeding tips, is the slighty creepy

> > obsessivness of posts on Schooling, ranking &

> > fighting for places, seem a little disturbing ?

>

> >

> > Does this happen on all sites or is it just ED

> > with this penchant for early years educational

> > fetishment ?

>

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> Simple question.

>

> Are you a parent ?

>

> Yes , odd post.

>

> No , You havn't a clue what it's all about then.

>

>

> Grr

>

> W**F

>

> * I see they think it's a we are a bit weird out

> here *

Incorrect.

[citizenED]

Asset said " Thankfully faith schools have to have 50% of their intake from the community now, although I'm sure a bit of the temporary church attendance still goes on."

I think this only for CofE schools. Catholic schools only let in Catholics.

[antijen]

Its easy to go off on diffrent tangents, and this is the first forum I have been on, but I can understand how diffrent topics are related to diffrent sections of the forum. Schools and education whether in east dulwich or anywhere else is a huge topic, I dont see any problem with Snorky opening it up a bit, its linked to many issues. Ive read quite a bit of whats in family room but I have never responded because people are asking for advice and discussing what I know to be a big headache for parents. The politics of local, central goverment on education is so corrupt, I find it hard to get into conversations about which schools are best, statistics and how unfair the system is, because at the core of it is a goverment who dont give a shit about our children.