Good Friday Agreement......

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Just read today's Death List to ensure I'm not in it, and after that promising start, I read about this Guys death yesterday..

William "Spud" Moore (born c. 1949, died 18 May 2009) was a loyalist paramilitary from Belfast, Northern Ireland. He was a member of the brutal Shankill Butchers, an Ulster Volunteer Force gang.

In 1972 Moore met 20-year-old Lenny Murphy, who would become the leader of the Shankill Butchers. Moore was then aged 23 and had a few previous convictions for petty crime. He had worked at a butcher's shop from which he had stolen various knives and meat-cleavers. He then started working as a taxi-driver.

Beginning in 1975, the gang started abducting and murdering Roman Catholics. Moore would drive around Catholic neighbourhoods in his taxi looking for prospective victims. Murphy and the others would bundle victims into the back of the taxi and beat and torture them, before Murphy would finally drag them out into an alley and cut their throats. The following year Murphy was arrested and subsequently convicted of a firearms offence, and to divert suspicion from himself he ordered the Butcher slayings to continue. They did so, with Moore now acting as the leader. The gang also killed several rival loyalists as a result of petty feuds, in addition to planting a bomb in Catholic neighbourhood during an IRA parade. The bomb killed a 10-year-old boy, and wounded over 100 people.

After a victim escaped alive, the Shankill Butchers were rounded up by police and most of them broke down and confessed, although they were too terrified to implicate Lenny Murphy. They stood trial in February 1979. William Moore pleaded guilty to the most murders, eleven, and was convicted of these and a further eight murders. He was sentenced to life imprisonment.

However, Moore was released in 1998 under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement. It has been alleged recently that Moore is involved in a loyalist drug-dealing, including a visit to a notorious Edinburgh gang[1] Moore died in his north Belfast home on 18 May 2009 as the result of a suspected heart attack.

Assuming, equally notorious Catholics were also set free under this Agreement its no wonder that some kind of deal was done.

How, in the name of Basil D'Oliviera, can this have been allowed to happen?

[david_carnell]

How can what have happened?

30 years of "the troubles"

Over 100 years of civil unrest?

The continued reprisal killings?

Or the early release of a notorious murderer and terrorist?

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

And what's Basil D'Olivera got to do with it?

[Tony.London Suburbs]

david_carnell Wrote:

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> How can what have happened?>

> 30 years of "the troubles">

> Over 100 years of civil unrest?>

> The continued reprisal killings?

>

> Or the early release of a notorious murderer and

> terrorist?

The release of this Guy back into Society, at any time in the remainder of his murderous existence, and also, presumably, many others, from both sides, who performed equally despicable and disgusting acts against others.

[snorky]

letting one UVF shitbag go free meant many many people were able to move on and begin the process of putting the past where it belongs - in the past

[Tony.London Suburbs]

snorky Wrote:

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> letting one UVF shitbag go free meant many many

> people were able to move on and begin the process

> of putting the past where it belongs - in the past

Yes but Ninos, I did say, "Assuming, equally notorious Catholics were also set free under this Agreement "...surely there were others, from both sides, who were also set free, who were convicted of equally diabolical acts against Humanity?

[david_carnell]

Tony.London Suburbs Wrote:

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> The release of this Guy back into Society, at any

> time in the remainder of his murderous existence,

> and also, presumably, many others, from both

> sides, who performed equally despicable and

> disgusting acts against others.

Political expediency.

[Santerme]

Peace in our time!

4 tours and this still makes my teeth grit, but I have say I prefer not to see British citizens being slaughtered anymore and if that means a deal with the Devil so be it.

It was a dirty, nasty war and we are well rid of it.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

david_carnell Wrote:

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Tony.London Suburbs Wrote:

Political expediency.

Indeed David but I cannot help thinking that allowing scum like this back into Society stinks to high heaven.

[JetSetWilly]

terrorists from both sides were released, from those convicted of minor offences to those inside for the more notorious acts of the troubles, it was a condition of the agreement. no matter how bad a taste it has left in the mouth, the greater good has to be taken into consideration and while yes there are convicted murderers walking the streets, some released after only serving a few years of their sentence, we,re no longer living in the black days of the 70,s, 80,s and 90,s, when these bastards were allowed to reap their harvest.

[PeckhamRose]

Let's hope his God punishes him.

[david_carnell]

Tony, not that I wish to put the kibosh on debating this, but it is over 10 years since the signing of the Good Friday Agreement.

And whilst the release of "undesirables" is one of the more fraught points it's overall effect has led to a decade of near peace for the first time in a long time.

In this instance, the ends justify the means. Much as Santerme has alluded to.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

I agree David and others but I did not realise the real hardcore were also set free, I must admit.

Reading about this Guy now, he seems as low as you can get.

[mockney piers]

True. Obviously scum but these are the thinga you have to do to break a cycle of violence. Hanging on to righteousness and anger and revenge won't break it. Conflict is easy peace is hard and tough compromises and unpleasant decisions must be made, but the price is absolutely worth paying surely.

[Santerme]

Tony.London Suburbs Wrote:

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> I agree David and others but I did not realise the

> real hardcore were also set free, I must admit.

>

> Reading about this Guy now, he seems as low as you

> can get.

Oh, you would be surprised at how low they got, on both sides of the divide, seriously.

But it was Big Boys Games and Big Boys Rules, I am afraid.

It is great to go to places I could not have set foot in whilst in uniform and have a pint with the locals.

I really enjoy visiting both Northern Ireland and the South these days, they are a marvellously welcoming people.

[JetSetWilly]

Tony.London Suburbs Wrote:

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> I agree David and others but I did not realise the

> real hardcore were also set free, I must admit.

>

> Reading about this Guy now, he seems as low as you

> can get.

tls, you want to get your hands on the book "the shankhill butchers" by martin dillon, it will give you all the gory details, literally.

while there were some real psychopaths on both sides, these boys took it to a new level, and it made no difference what colour your cloth was, they were just as equally bad to their own side. may they rot in hell.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Thanks JSW.

You are right, it did say that they murdered their "own" as well.

Like everyone, I knew about the atrocities but I really did not know that the "Big Boys" also went free, at the time.

[david_carnell]

Santerme Wrote:

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> It is great to go to places I could not have set

> foot in whilst in uniform and have a pint with the

> locals.

>

> I really enjoy visiting both Northern Ireland and

> the South these days, they are a marvellously

> welcoming people.

No doubt, but with my accent I'd still be a bit wary before walking into any old pub in Short Strand or Bogside.

Am I wrong?

[Santerme]

david_carnell Wrote:

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> Santerme Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > It is great to go to places I could not have

> set

> > foot in whilst in uniform and have a pint with

> the

> > locals.

> >

> > I really enjoy visiting both Northern Ireland

> and

> > the South these days, they are a marvellously

> > welcoming people.

>

> No doubt, but with my accent I'd still be a bit

> wary before walking into any old pub in Short

> Strand or Bogside.

>

> Am I wrong?

Erh no, I would caution against certain areas still, but it is a diminishing list of places I would say.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Come on carnell, with your accent there are many pubs in South London you can't go into!

[david_carnell]

I know, you try and sing the "Harrow School Song" after three or four large ports and the locals get all antse.

[Mick Mac]

TLS - The theory was that these people were engaged in political acts of violence/acts of war rather than criminal acts and the arguements put forward were that in a normal society these crimes would not have taken place, hence when "peace" arrived they were released.

A surprisingly high percentage of these people did not commit further crimes when released. The small number who did were rearrested.

Anyone who has read "The Shankill Butchers" as JSW suggested would be amazed as to how anyone could exact that level of violence and be safe to be let out in any circumstances and obviously the same for the the republican terrorists, but very surprisingly these people in general did not reoffend and some even became political leaders.

[snorky]

some indeed were run out of town soon after the GFA was beouigh in - Mad Dog & Mad pup decamped to Manchester

[Mick Mac]

I think they became drug dealers and as a result were run out of town by their local communities.

[Santerme]

They are still drug dealing scumbags unfortunately.