Traffic lights problem at Grove Tavern turning right onto Dulwich Common?

[tomskip]

I turn right at this junction fairly regularly and have noticed that the green phase specifically for the right hand (turning) lane has disappeared. So cars go forward when the lights are green, waiting either for a decent gap in the traffic coming down from Forest Hill towards Lordship Lane, or for the chance to turn on the right hand filter light. But recently that right hand filter light has not come on and the lights just go straight back to red again, meaning that several cars are turning right on the red light. It has happened every time I've been there in the last 10 days or so. Anyone else noticed, or am I missing something?

[bawdy-nan]

Also, the green phase for pedestrians has disappeared it used to .....oh, yes, forgot, pedestrians just required to dash through the endless traffic here.

[Penguin68]

As I recall, the right-turn filter operates during (extended) rush hours, but not outside them. Have you been changing the time you pass this junction?

[tomskip]

I do go at different times, yes. Usually before 10am though. But I think that setting needs to be changed because there has not been a gap in the traffic coming down to allow cars to turn right at all in recent weeks. Its dangerous. Much like turning right from East Dulwich Road onto Peckham Rye, unless that has been changed now?

[hertburs]

As far as I remember, all of the candidates for the Southwark elections last year promised to do something about the awful pedestrian crossing situation at this junction. Since the elections of course nothing seems to have been done. How quickly promises are forgotten. In the meantime, I watch people everyday taking their lives in their hands trying to cross the South Circular. If you try to cross heading North towards The Grove you just cannot see anything coming fast round the corner towards Dulwich Common.

[tomskip]

It is definitely a problem. No filter there at 6pm tonight and traffic backed up all the way to Friern Road because not enough cars can get through on the right hand turn. And yes, of course, the lack of a pedestrian crossing anywhere at all at that junction is a disgrace! I was driving a car full of children to an after school activity along Dulwich Common, which they would be quite capable of getting to on foot if only that junction weren't so dangerous for pedestrians. Have reported to TFL.

[Applespider]

I think you're right. It's changed or the definition of peak hours has.

The traffic appears heavier in the morning (when I try to exit out of Melford Rd at 8ish) and then I've seen a few close shaves in the evening (8-9pm) with cars turning right at the Grove while there's still oncoming traffic coming northwards.

[Lollipop]

Traffic was very heavy today at 8.30 - so bad that some drivers took to the bus lane to get through.

[Bic Basher]

The continuing issues at this junction is due to TfL who are in charge of the lights, rather than Southwark Council where it's more easier to raise these issues.

I'm pretty sure that until recently, the right turn from LL to Dulwich Common was in action all day. rather than the peaks, yet one of the reasons why nothing has been done to make things easier for pedestrians, especially those crossing from Cox's Walk is it'd ruin the contaflow of traffic from Forest Hill going into the Common.

[DadOf4]

for a pedestrian - that is a SHOCKING junction - very dangerous

[wulfhound]

+1 DadOf4 - tough even as a reasonably fit adult, impossible with kids or dogs in tow. I've written to AM Val Shawcross about it, but never heard anything back. Anyone else got ideas who might be worth approaching - Darren Johnson from the Greens maybe?

[Sue]

I cross here quite frequently as I have an allotment up there and I agree its really dangerous. It's made worse because so many cars go through on the red so there's no window of opportunity to cross. And if you are crossing from the Cox's Walk side to the Grove side, it's impossible to see what's coming down Lordship Lane intending to turn left along Dulwich Common.And some cars turn that corner very fast indeed. I just thank God I don't have a buggy or small children with me. Nightmare.

[hertburs]

Could our local councillors please comment on what is happening at this junction to improve things for pedestrians. At the moment, their silence is deafening!

[Townleygreen]

why don't you email them yourself?

[BrandNewGuy]

hertburs Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Could our local councillors please comment on what

> is happening at this junction to improve things

> for pedestrians. At the moment, their silence is

> deafening!

They've claimed that TFL won't do anything to slow down the traffic on such a main intersection by adding a proper pedestrian phase to the lights. One way you could do it in the current climate is to make the Cox's Walk/Grove Tavern crossing part of a cycle 'quietway'/'superhighway' or what you will and we'd have the permission and funding pouring in within weeks.

[Siduhe]

hertburs Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Could our local councillors please comment on what

> is happening at this junction to improve things

> for pedestrians. At the moment, their silence is

> deafening!

The College Ward Councillors tend to use Twitter much more than this forum - or I've found them pretty responsive if you email them.

[Applespider]

There are signs up at the bottom of Cox's walk saying that they are doing footpath works with an estimated completion date of early August. Unless those are much further down Dulwich Common, I haven't seen any sign of what they are actually doing.

I think it's a great idea to try to tie into a cycling Quietway but wouldn't hold breath on funding. CS5 with Vauxhall's priority gyratory was being discussed before the Olympics and is only just being built in part. But pedestrians and cyclist groups should lobby together more as two large groups of vulnerable road users. Sadly there's far more cash in the motorists camp.

[tibby]

Penguin is right

[Ampersand]

BrandNewGuy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> hertburs Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Could our local councillors please comment on

> what

> > is happening at this junction to improve things

> > for pedestrians. At the moment, their silence

> is

> > deafening!

>

> They've claimed that TFL won't do anything to slow

> down the traffic on such a main intersection by

> adding a proper pedestrian phase to the lights.

Yep - this is the response I got from Andy Simmons when I raised it at one of his surgeries a couple of weeks ago. Unless there are a couple of KSIs at the junction, you can pretty much forget it until there is a change in administration at City Hall.

[Sue]

Ampersand Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

Unless there are a couple of KSIs at

> the junction, you can pretty much forget it until

> there is a change in administration at City Hall.

Well, whoever is making the decision that pedestrians' lives are of so little consequence - I would not like to have to live with their conscience when the inevitable accident happens.

[tiddles]

I thought that junction had been worse lately! so it's not my imagination after all

[Pugwash]

A friend who is blind and lives in Lordship Lane by the Grove Tavern has spent years talking to councillors and MP Tessa about this junction, They have written to TFL on his behalf and TFL do not feel it is a priority junction and will not put a pedestrian phase or permanent filter on the lights. If an MP cannot get things done what chance do us 'ordinary folk do. Try our new MP Helen to see how far she gets.

[hertburs]

This is a photo looking back up Lordship Lane towards Forest Hill from the crossing point opposite The Grove. Apart from the usual sightlines problems, the view for both pedestrians and drivers is currently obscured by a road sign for footpath repairs. According to the Highway Code the stopping distance at 30mph is 23 metres (75 feet) and at 40mph is 36 metres (118 feet). This is a very fast junction as cars try to beat the traffic lights.

[Sue]

That's the worst part of the crossing for pedestrians.

At least with the other parts you can see if you can't cross because of cars.

At that part, you can't see what is coming to turn left until it's right on top of you, and possibly going extremely fast.

I did it tonight. Basically you just have to cross your fingers and walk very fast :(

ETA: The actual crossing is a bit further down than the point you took your picture from, I think?

[wulfhound]

I think it's a great idea to try to tie into a cycling Quietway but wouldn't hold breath on funding.

Not sure London Wildlife Trust would be too keen - the only sensible "quiet" route south from there is Cox's Walk & Dulwich Woods, no cycling allowed IIRC.

Might be one to drop Tessa Jowell a line about, though - she seems to be making the case for more walking & running as part of her election campaign - see http://essays.centreforlondon.org/issues/technology/london-a-walkable-city/ - and presumably knows that junction?