Labour Leadership

[Blah Blah]

Even if he goes full term, they will have to elect a new leader before the election. Voters will want to know who they are voting for.

I'm not suprised young people are pro Corbyn. Cameron has nothing but more debt and even more unnaffordable housing in store for them. And the other Labour leader contenders are no better.

[JohnL]

Actually thought about it this morning.

We could be one big scandal away from a Marxist Leninist government.

And there are scandals brewing.

[Jeremy]

The re-introduction of clause four is a bit worrying for me. Perhaps in practise Corbyn just envisages renationalistion of key infrastructure rather than moving towards socialism proper, but it certainly isn't something I'd want in the manifesto of any British government.

Could a Corbyn victory help to revitalise the Lib Dems?

[Blah Blah]

That's exactly it Jeremy. He IS referring to key infrastructure, because we subsidise the private corporations our key infrastructure belongs to, to the tune of billions each year, whilst they happily make profits. One of our big six energy compainies is EDF which is a STATE owned utility company of France. Imagine that! A state owned company that trades globally making profit for it's own state. This idea that nationalised business can't be part of the free market and make healthy profit is nonsense.

What Corbyn is talking about is nothing like the post war nationalisation of industry and infrastructure (controlled more by unions than management at times). And there is a growing appetite for it, particulalrly amongst the young, who just see the cost of living spiralling out of their means and fail to understand why we are buying energy from a state owned company whilst having sold off all ours. Something fundamental HAS to change. I'm not sure Corbyn is the man to deliver it, but he'll certainly bring a whole slate of considerations back to the public consciousness.

[red devil]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> One of our big six energy

> compainies is EDF which is a STATE owned utility

> company of France. Imagine that! A state owned

> company that trades globally making profit for

> it's own state. This idea that nationalised

> business can't be part of the free market and make

> healthy profit is nonsense.

Doesn't a lot of that profit come from nuclear produced energy? Something I imagine that doesn't sit comfortably with Corbyn and young idealistic voters...

[Otta]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> Could a Corbyn victory help to revitalise the Lib

> Dems?

I was wondering the same thing. Could imagine some Labour guys switching teams.

[JohnL]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Jeremy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >

> > Could a Corbyn victory help to revitalise the

> Lib

> > Dems?

>

>

> I was wondering the same thing. Could imagine some

> Labour guys switching teams.

The Blairites seem to see a war coming (rather ironically)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11794595/Tom-Watson-Tony-Blairs-assassin-can-save-Labour-from-Jeremy-Corbyn.html

[Blah Blah]

It doesn't matter how the French produce energy, the fact still remains that a state owned energy comapny can trade internationally as part of the global free market and make good profit.

I don't think for one minute that Corbyn will mean a huge enough swing to Lib dems to revitalise them. Corbyn may mean a slift shift in the type of people that support Labour, but they need that anyway after the shift away from them to the SNP and UKIP.

[????]

Good old idealism...

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/07/idealists-tend-to-cause-far-more-misery-to-humanity-than-cynics/

[red devil]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> It doesn't matter how the French produce energy,

> the fact still remains that a state owned energy

> comapny can trade internationally as part of the

> global free market and make good profit.

Spoken like a true Capitalist :)

Of course it matters. I know, let's have a state owned company that makes profit on the back of Far East sweatshops too...

[Loz]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> One of our big six energy compainies is EDF which is a STATE owned utility company of France.

> Imagine that! A state owned company that trades globally making profit for it's own state.

A slight point of order in that 15% of the EDF parent company is privately owned.

[Loz]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Jeremy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >

> > Could a Corbyn victory help to revitalise the Lib Dems?

>

>

> I was wondering the same thing. Could imagine some Labour guys switching teams.

I thought that as well. I can see the Blairites and other centre-lefters merging with the Lib Dems.

[Jeremy]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> That's exactly it Jeremy. He IS referring to key infrastructure

But that's not what Clause IV says...

[maxxi]

???? Wrote:

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> Good old idealism...

>

> http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/07/i

> dealists-tend-to-cause-far-more-misery-to-humanity

> -than-cynics/

"People who think they?re good and that they can make the world a better place end up doing much more damage,"

Spot on description of T Blair.

[DaveR]

It is hilarious watching London lefties trying to persuade themselves that the General Election we had just a few weeks ago didn't really happen, and that there are 'huge swathes' of voters dying for a proper socialist party leader to vote for. And talk of 'establishment coups'. Priceless.

Can I give everybody a quick reality check. Outside London, Labour took precisely one seat from the Tories in the whole of the South of England. And that was in Hove, which is as close to a 'London' seat outside the city itself as you can get. And Labour lost zero seats to UKIP, even indirectly. If the Labour Party has any aspirations to govern again, they need to throw Corbyn under the proverbial bus. Today.

[Loz]

DaveR Wrote:

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> If the Labour Party has any aspirations to govern again, they need to throw

> Corbyn under the proverbial bus. Today.

To give the Parliamentary Labour Party their due, they are trying to...

[Blah Blah]

red devil Wrote:

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> Spoken like a true Capitalist :)

> Of course it matters. I know, let's have a state

> owned company that makes profit on the back of Far

> East sweatshops too...

What sweatshops have to do with state owned utility companies I do not know. But seeing as plenty of private market corporations seem to get away with that then another defence of the poor ethics of the free market perhaps?

We have an education and health system that are both state funded, so that EVERYONE can have access to education and good helathcare. And we have that within a global capitalist free market economy....shock horror! A healthy economy can be a healthy mix of ideas from several 'isms'. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

These things are not about capitalism over socilaism (or vice versa), they are about recognising what is important for the mass and about also recognising that some things have to be people before profit and not the other way round. Need I remind anyone that the energy compnaies are under investigation for price fixing?

I really don't understand anyone who uses socialiam, or the left, as some slur. You went to school didn't you? You've had to use the NHS at times haven't you? These things didn't exist at one time. And the outcome was awful.

[Alan Medic]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Blah Blah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > One of our big six energy compainies is EDF

> which is a STATE owned utility company of France.

>

> > Imagine that! A state owned company that trades

> globally making profit for it's own state.

>

> A slight point of order in that 15% of the EDF

> parent company is privately owned.

Haven't read the thread but by heck I didn't realise the forum was so big.

[Loz]

Alan Medic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Loz Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Blah Blah Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > One of our big six energy compainies is EDF

> > which is a STATE owned utility company of

> France.

> >

> > > Imagine that! A state owned company that

> trades

> > globally making profit for it's own state.

> >

> > A slight point of order in that 15% of the EDF

> > parent company is privately owned.

>

> Haven't read the thread but by heck I didn't

> realise the forum was so big.

...or owned mostly by the French, for that matter!

[Alan Medic]

That figures though by the number of shops in the area with French names.

[red devil]

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> What sweatshops have to do with state owned

> utility companies I do not know. But seeing as

> plenty of private market corporations seem to get

> away with that then another defence of the poor

> ethics of the free market perhaps?

>

> We have an education and health system that are

> both state funded, so that EVERYONE can have

> access to education and good helathcare. And we

> have that within a global capitalist free market

> economy....shock horror! A healthy economy can be

> a healthy mix of ideas from several 'isms'. It

> doesn't have to be one or the other.

>

> These things are not about capitalism over

> socilaism (or vice versa), they are about

> recognising what is important for the mass and

> about also recognising that some things have to be

> people before profit and not the other way round.

> Need I remind anyone that the energy compnaies are

> under investigation for price fixing?

>

> I really don't understand anyone who uses

> socialiam, or the left, as some slur. You went to

> school didn't you? You've had to use the NHS at

> times haven't you? These things didn't exist at

> one time. And the outcome was awful.

Very good, but none of this explains your earlier statement that it doesn't matter how a state owned company like EDF makes it's profit. I reckon to Corbyn and to large number of his likely voters it does, as it would if it was found out that sweatshops were part of the manufacturing/production chain of state run company, as it would if it was found out a state owned company was dealing in illegal arms, etc etc...

[holloway]

JC used to be my MP when I lived north of the river, and he was exactly what you want as a local representative; he was a visible presence in the community and genuinely cared about local issues but not so insular as to be unaware of worldwide issues. A good combination to be PM?? The idea of a corbyn government increasing poverty and unemployment is ludicrous. He IS a socialist.

[Earl Aelfheah]

There is a lot of nonsense being talked about Corbyn. The fact that his ideas are considered to be somehow extreme, just demonstrates the degree to which the current political discourse has become nothing more than an echo chamber, for a few identikit timid careerists.

[DaveR]

"The fact that his ideas are considered to be somehow extreme....."

by 90% of the electorate

"just demonstrates the degree to which the current political discourse...."

on this thread

"has become nothing more than...."

the vain howling into the wind of the post-Blair frustrated pseudo socialists who are largely insulated from the real economic challenges facing the country and many of its people.

[ratty]

Tories on the run I see!