Is there a God?

[Y'man]

HAL9000 Wrote:

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> Y'man Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > HAL9000 Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > > Indeed, modern science has identified a

> > > mitochondrial Eve and a Y-Line Adam amongst

> our

> > > genetic ancestors.

>

> > Your source please Hal.

>

> I've added links above that identify the principal

> sources in this field of study.

Wikipedia, Hal? Sorry, that won't cut it. You could have written it.

[mockney piers]

Actually they are pretty good articles, though rather annoyed by the massive fat spoiler for Battlestar Gallactica in the eve one.

Go ongive it ago, beats the Gideon bible on that cheap motel a while back eh ;)

[HAL9000]

Y'man Wrote:

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> HAL9000 Wrote:

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> > I've added links above that identify the principal

> > sources in this field of study.

> Wikipedia, Hal? Sorry, that won't cut it. You

> could have written it.

That is exactly why I made the point that my links "identify the principal sources" - the Wiki pages link through to the original scientific research papers - unless you suspect that I wrote all of them too? Clue: See the footnotes and/or references sections.

[Brendan]

If you guys are interested in the subject give Stephen Oppenheimer a go like Mockney said. He is one of those few academics who has the ability to convey his research to lay folk like us without dumbing it down.

[Huguenot]

"As to whether that is far fetched to you depends on your faith. I find the mathmatical probability of life evolving far- fetched - more chance of me winning the lottery and never buying a ticket (no comments about that please before you all start on me, lol) - so you have to make a personal decision as to what you will believe after a careful search."

I may not have quite got that one. Are you saying the bible is true because it's simply more plausible?

Gosh.

Not sure what people can turn up in a search? I guess people could search their soul, and find it's more convenient to run with the Bible stuff?

That doesn't mean it's true. People choose to believe stuff every day because it's convenient - battered wives and cuckolds. It's not true though.

[Y'man]

My apologies, Hal, if I said something to make you feel a little threatened, it wasn't intentional. Why the flippant remark at the end there?

[mockney piers]

I sincerely doubt he felt threatened, but you were pretty rude and flippant yourself, or were you being 'amusing'?

[Y'man]

Peckhamgatecrasher Wrote:

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> Cripes - is prison that boring? Incest not

> outlawed until time of Moses. See Leviticus.

I just noticed this comment. I've looked through and can find no mention of prison anywhere, to what or whose remark, do you pertain?

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

I was imagining scenarios where you would have time on your hands and only access to a Bible. Prison seemed a good option. Cheap jibe - ignore it.

[HAL9000]

Y'man Wrote:

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> My apologies, Hal, if I said something to make you

> feel a little threatened, it wasn't intentional.

> Why the flippant remark at the end there?

No apology necessary. If anything it is I who should apologise. I was just trying to reflect the humour in your post. I tend to sound a bit robotic on email - hence my choice of screen name. No offence perceived or intended on my part.

[Y'man]

Great stuff, it can make for riveting conflab. Maybe we'll start again sometime on a different topic. TTFN.

[Narnia]

Just wondering. I started the thread in July and still seems to be going strong. Have you got an answer yet or shall I pop back in a while?

[mockney piers]

You mean you started a controversial thread and didn't read it? Isn't that known as flaming? ;-P

[????]

A question that has perplexed the great minds since the dawn of history and we the dullards of the EDF are meant to sort ot out in 5 months

[HAL9000]

An interesting observation from a Times article cited on another thread:

Followers of Padre Pio believe he exuded "the odour of sanctity", had the gift of bilocation (being in two places at once), healed the sick and could prophesy the future.

The divine gift of bilocation is yet another example of Quantum Mechanics appearing within Judaeo-religious ideas. 'Being in two places at once' describes what scientists today might call a Quantum Superposition!

[Y'man]

'People believe', a lot of things, that doesn't stop a good percentage of it being incorrect. One man's belief is another's debate.

[Narnia]

mockney piers Wrote:

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> You mean you started a controversial thread and

> didn't read it? Isn't that known as flaming? ;-P

Well I don't know about controversial! I have read a good deal of it and posted on occasions too. But there are only two possible answers to the question, yes or no. Of course if you say 'yes' you have to define god for those who don't know god. That's a bit difficult. If there is a god I would suggest he/it is beyond being defined in terms of the limitations of language. A bit like how to describe the taste of an apple for example to someone who has never tasted one.

Not sure what 'flaming' is but please PM me when you've arrived at the answer. I am interested...........honest!

[Brendan]

Depends what you mean by the question.

Are you asking: Is the universe somehow more than the sum of its parts? If so does that constitute a god? If so what is a god?

Or are you asking: Is there a big man with a white beard sitting on a cloud who has the pope on speed dial?

[Narnia]

Well I'm certainly not asking the latter!

[Brendan]

Shit! I know the answer to that one.

Not sure about the others though.

[Curly]

mockney piers Wrote:

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> despite > europe's best minds for a thousand years having

> dedicated their lives to theology and yet still

> came up with many many differences in

> interpretation,

Obviously they were not some of the best minds, lol, otherwise they would have ditched the theology bit.

> You say the bible isn't incomplete and any

> interpetation is only there for those who want to

> twist it's meaning for their own ends, but in the

> following sentence you go on to interpret why

> there is an implicit acceptance of incest until

> Leviticus outlaws it.

> If it wasn't incomplete wouldn't the bible have

> had a few more begats to fill in the gaps and said

> 'yes they were related but I bestowed them with

> genetic diversity, and once there were enough of

> you I stopped interfering and made incest rather

> unhealthy to your genetic disposition'?

>

> I can't find those bits in the complete bible,

> clearly I don't understand it ;)

Wasn't 'Adam had sons and daughters' enough to complete the picture? I meant it's complete in the sense it gives you what you need to know, not that it spells out everything in out child friendly format.

P.S I do agree with you that the mitochondrial DNA in itself is not conclusive evidence of an Adam and Eve, although it does at the very least support the account.

[Curly]

Huguenot Wrote:

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> "As to whether that is far fetched to you depends

> on your faith. I find the mathmatical probability

> of life evolving far- fetched - more chance of me

> winning the lottery and never buying a ticket (no

> comments about that please before you all start on

> me, lol) - so you have to make a personal decision

> as to what you will believe after a careful

> search."

>

> I may not have quite got that one. Are you saying

> the bible is true because it's simply more

> plausible?

No. I'm saying that the mathematical probability of life evolving by chance is far-fetched compared to life having a powerful designer. (I thought I said no comments on this).

> Not sure what people can turn up in a search? I

> guess people could search their soul, and find

> it's more convenient to run with the Bible stuff?

Trust me. It is never more convenient to run with the bible stuff.

> That doesn't mean it's true.

No it doesn't. But I know which horse I'll back with the same odds.

People choose to

> believe stuff every day because it's convenient -

> battered wives and cuckolds. It's not true though.

What like evolution?

[Curly]

Brendan Wrote:

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> >

> Or are you asking: Is there a big man with a white

> beard sitting on a cloud who has the pope on speed

> dial?

Aren't you thinking of Santa Claus?

[Brendan]

I don?t think Father Christmas is on speaking terms with the pope. He is after all our last vestige of Woden and the fact that today the old god?s image is so ubiquitous probably pisses pope whatisname the somethingorother off no end.

[Huguenot]

I've never heard anything so ridiculous as someone saying something spectacularly contentious and then forbidding comments on it. What on earth gave you the right to dictate what people could or couldn't comment on? I take it you were joking.

Let me rephrase to again request your clarity - you called evolution far-fetched by comparison with God.

If you're struggling with definitions, let me enlighten you: far-fetched means "unconvincing, unlikely, strained, fantastic, incredible, doubtful, unbelievable, dubious, unrealistic, improbable, unnatural, preposterous, implausible"

And the antonyms (for comparison - and of course by implication your characterisation of God) are: "possible, likely, reasonable, acceptable, realistic, authentic, credible, probable, plausible, feasible, imaginable, believable"

Do I understand you're backing 'God' based on the odds? You don't have to work the odds on evolution, you can watch it in action.

If long-term scales are making you confused, you can just as easily make short term observations of disease resistant bacteria or fruit flies. Unlike God in action, which is a matter of faith.

Or do you simply close your eyes when presented with immutable facts, hug your rosary, and plead to the heavens to rid you of Satan's work?

(light hearted musing... or are you just a troll?)