Is there a God?

[HAL9000]

The origin of the Universe still belongs to the realm of speculation whereas the origin of life is the subject of hands on research and experimentation - it is far more accessible to us. We may yet reproduce the origin of life ab initio, in silico.

[Brendan]

To start in sand?

[Brendan]

From dust?

[Brendan]

But would the universe be here if there wasn?t life around to experience it?

[Brendan]

We will start with silicone stomach implants?

[Moos]

Brendan = vox clamantis in deserto.

[Brendan]

Brendan is eating a pudding of talking clematis.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Garnished with locusts?

[The Chair]

People....please....

Whilst I'm trying to be more relaxed in off-topic issues it must remain a sensible debate. Can we keep the witty asides to the Lounge please.

[HAL9000]

Brendan Wrote:

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> But would the universe be here if there wasn?t

> life around to experience it?

As Bishop George Berkeley said in support of his theory of "subjective idealism": Esse est percipi.

If you are genuinely interested in this type of paradox, you may find this interesting: Anthropic principle

[mockney piers]

I can't go sadly, and apologies for the short notice, but this lecture on the creation museum tonight at UCL looks like it could be interesting/entertaining.

That good old young earth huh?

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Just dropped my unlit cigarette in a cup of coffee. I am mortal.

[Ladymuck]

Peckhamgatecrasher Wrote:

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> Just dropped my unlit cigarette in a cup of

> coffee. I am mortal.

Unlit you say? Presumably your coffee remained drinkable then.

Also, was this a capuccino type cup or an expresso type cup. If the latter, then for the unlit ciggie to have landed within such a small space...hmmmm...is there a God?

[garden man]

JUST THOUGHT I"D THROW THIS IN THE MIX!!

"IS THERE A GOD"?

That is the first thing to learn - not to seek.when you seek you are only window shopping.The question of wether or not there is a God or truth or reality,or whatever you like to call it,can never be answered by books,by priests,philosophers or saviours.Nobody & nothing can answer the question but you your self & that is why you must know your self.Immaturity lies only in the total ignorance of self.To understand your self is the beginning of wisdom.

Namaste

Nigel

[mockney piers]

Of course, of course, I can't believe we were all attempting a rational (for the most part) discussion on this, my bad.

Hang on, let me have a proper go.

Think not of the how cold the gusts are, think instead of the power of the winter storm.

Think not of the sweetness of the spring water, think instead of the ocean where all streams* gather.

Think not of the meal you eat, think instead of the bounty of gaia from which all nourishment emenates.

Think not of the notes you play, think instead how your spirit is enervated by the music.

Think not of the vaccuous solipsistic, crappy tedium of the blog you write, think instead of the conciousnesses of the loa that pervade the electronic nuerons of cyberspace.

Think not of the grubby knee trembler in the car park, bag of chips in hand, think instead of the miracle of the creation of life.

Think not of the existence of God, think in blah blah etc etc.

Cor, I should take advantage of lonely, lost people inspire those who seek truth, for a living ;-P

Shammily tac tac

Swami Mockinada

*err, apart from the ones that don't go there i guess, unless you count evaporation and precipitation as a sort of universal serial bus of the water cycle..or something.

[vinceayre]

When I was a baby and toddler in an orphanage there was a particular nun that looked after me and we kept up contact through out my life and I recall after my father died having a conversation with her as I had decided god did not exist and she said the bugger about her job was that she wouldn't really know either until she died.

I don't personally believe in god but I would like to be proved wrong.

[SteveT]

I am like everyone else as I do not know if there is a God but if there is, I sure hope he is looking out for me.

[HAL9000]

And therein lies the rub: there is no salvation without faith - believe or be damned.

SteveT and vinceayre - have you considered Pascal's Wager?

[Jeremy]

Well as Richard Dawkins put it... "Pascal's Wager" is nothing but cowardly bet-hedging. What sort of supreme being could possibly reward such cynicism?

[Brendan]

For someone with such a fervent belief in the non-existence of god Dawkins certainly makes a lot of assumptions about his/her/its nature.

Anyway the last time a checked, being vocal and arrogant does not turn a biologist into a philosopher.

[Jeremy]

Well... he does ram his views down people's throats somewhat. And the God Delusion made him a fair few quid, by largely telling people what they already knew.

He's right about Pascal's Wager though. You would trying to please a god who - if he exists - is gullible and probably a bit thick.

[Brendan]

The thing with Pascal?s wager is that according to most modern monotheistic religions living a life which pleases ?god? is pretty much the same the as just adhering to our established social norms, being generous, kind and law abiding.

Except I suppose they expect you to attend church of some sort.

[Jeremy]

Well... 4 of the (commonly accepted) 10 commandments are about worshipping god, and the other 6 are about being a good bloke. So you could argue that the two things have similar significance...

[bettyspaghetti]

Pascal's wager doesn't help you decide which god/gods to place your bet on. Homer Simpson stopped going to church in case he was pissing off some other god every Sunday.

[Brendan]

About a gagillion pages back in this thread we were talking evolution and I made the point that our understanding of how evolution works has developed significantly since Darwin and that it is not as completely random as he though. That life has evolved the ability to evolve.

I don?t think anyone believed what I was saying, preferring not to threaten the stability of their world views by questioning the definitiveness of 150 year old science.

At the time I thought about pulling some research together but couldn?t really be bothered.

Now this Oliver Burkeman fellow has written an article on the subject: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/mar/19/evolution-darwin-natural-selection-genes-wrong

To quote him, ?But in the culture at large, we may be on the brink of a major shift in perspective, with enormous implications for how most of us think about how life came to be the way it is.?

So there!