Becoming a hipster

[Bob Buzzard]

I've decided to become a hipster and would like advice on getting an authentic look. I've stopped shaving and I've ordered some tortiseshell thick rimmed glasses from Paine & Hunter. Should I get some tight jeans and a country style tweed jacket? What about Converse basketball trainers - are they ok?

[Loz]

You are too late - hipster's beards are already on the way out.

http://www.theguardian.com/fashion/shortcuts/2015/sep/21/hipster-beards-historian-dr-alun-withey-clean-shaven-urban-creatives

[Jah Lush]

"Be yourself, you can't be anybody else,

Be yourself is my advice to you,

Or else you'll always be a nobody,

So be yourself, or else."

Tubby The Tuba.

[Louisa]

This is what gentrification can cause. Mindless violence, aimed at people who are just trying to set up a business. So next time people sneer at the effects of this phenomenon, have a look at what it's doing to neighbourhoods like Shoreditch and Peckham.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/27/shoreditch-cereal-cafe-targeted-by-anti-gentrification-protesters

Louisa.

[DulwichFox]

Jah Lush Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "Be yourself, you can't be anybody else,

> Be yourself is my advice to you,

> Or else you'll always be a nobody,

> So be yourself, or else."

>

> Tubby The Tuba.

Be yourself, see yourself

I can see others like me

Be yourself, see yourself

Try and find peace of mind

Be yourself, see yourself

Be yourself, see yourself

Be yourself

Hawkwind

 

[Seabag]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This is what gentrification can cause. Mindless

> violence, aimed at people who are just trying to

> set up a business. So next time people sneer at

> the effects of this phenomenon, have a look at

> what it's doing to neighbourhoods like Shoreditch

> and Peckham.

>

> http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/27/sho

> reditch-cereal-cafe-targeted-by-anti-gentrificatio

> n-protesters

>

>

> Louisa.

I hope that was Farrow & Ball paint they were using

Or Little Green Co

[maxxi]

I think the Class War banners were stitched together by a delightful little artisan needlework shop in Haggerton and the pig masks donated by "grain n' grainy" a new outlet in Borough selling healthy snacks and cult film memorabilia.

[Loz]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This is what gentrification can cause. Mindless violence, aimed at people who are just trying to

> set up a business.

Surely 'anti-gentrification' caused the violence?

[JohnL]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Louisa Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > This is what gentrification can cause. Mindless

> violence, aimed at people who are just trying to

> > set up a business.

>

> Surely 'anti-gentrification' caused the violence?

https://www.facebook.com/events/1688801828009848/

F&*kParade :)

Maybe they should have gone down the 10 Bells and had a pint (for a fiver)

[Louisa]

Loz these people who claim to be 'anti-gentrifiers' and are a symptom of the bigger illness of gentrification itself.

Louisa.

[Loz]

That's a bit like blaming gay-bashing on homosexuality, Lou.

[????]

The last people I remember going down Brick Lane smasing shops up becuase they din't like 'incomers' were the NF back in 1980 - same old sad, intolerant shite form the other end of the spectrum

[Louisa]

Why people feel the need to resort to violence is beyond me, especially when it's aimed at a private individual who's just trying to create a business for themselves. I fear these people are using gentrification as a justification for mindless violence, however, it still doesn't detract from the wider argument that gentrification is causing a culture of 'them and us' to develop around the inner London boroughs. Abject poverty siting cheek by jowl with wealth, in traditionally working class neighbourhoods.

Louisa.

[Loz]

An utterly pitiful attempt at justifying the attack by one of the 'protesters'.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/28/cereal-killer-cafe-protest-gentrification-poverty

One word to describe him: twunt.

[JohnL]

So now they are after the ripper museum

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cereal-cafe-protesters-plan-shut-down-of-controversial-jack-the-ripper-museum-in-east-london-a2957131.html

Is Cereal killer a jack the ripper thing ?

[Otta]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Why people feel the need to resort to violence is

> beyond me, especially when it's aimed at a private

> individual who's just trying to create a business

> for themselves. I fear these people are using

> gentrification as a justification for mindless

> violence, however, it still doesn't detract from

> the wider argument that gentrification is causing

> a culture of 'them and us' to develop around the

> inner London boroughs. Abject poverty siting cheek

> by jowl with wealth, in traditionally working

> class neighbourhoods.

>

> Louisa.

Sometimes Lou you break character and go all sensible on us. I completely agree with that post.

[DaveR]

"Why people feel the need to resort to violence is

> beyond me, especially when it's aimed at a private

> individual who's just trying to create a business

> for themselves. I fear these people are using

> gentrification as a justification for mindless

> violence, however, it still doesn't detract from

> the wider argument that gentrification is causing

> a culture of 'them and us' to develop around the

> inner London boroughs. Abject poverty siting cheek

> by jowl with wealth, in traditionally working

> class neighbourhoods."

This is the thought a lot of people have, but its a bit more complicated than that. Apart from anything else, most of the 'protesters' are not local in the sense of the word that most people understand - the two I have seen quoted are an artist who moved to Shoreditch 15 years ago (when it was cheap) and an American professor. There was a thread on here a while back about 'regeneration' in Brixton, and the opposition to that. Local newspapers quoted local families saying they were in favour of regeneration - it was bringing better jobs and generally more money to the area - and the protesters were largely incomers, albeit those who had moved to Brixton 15 years ago (when it was cheap). And I remember the same divide when Spitalfields market was being redeveloped, and I was living nearby. There was almost complete disagreement between the artists/traders etc who had moved into the area (when it was cheap) and the local, largely Bangladeshi families who were quite keen on seeing the City and associated employment) spreading east. And let's not forget that the communities that are now considered local in Brixton (Afro-Caribbean) and the East End (Bangladeshi) were not themselves made exactly welcome back in the early days.

The fact is that London changes all the time, and the pattern of gentrification has often been the same. Cheap inner london areas are 'discovered' first by young cool types, and once the area has a buzz about it more (and more mainstream) businesses come in, property prices rise, and so on. The people who shout the loudest are usually the initial pioneers who are priced out - real long term residents are often happy to sell up, take the cash and move to the suburbs, or stay on in the knowledge that even if their kids are priced out, gentrification always brings more money into the area and that's likely to be a good thing overall. It's certainly the case that a house owned by a high earning family who employ a childminder and a cleaner, use local tradesmen to do up their house and a local garage to service their car, will contribute more to the local economy than a houseful of artists who bought the place for peanuts when no one wanted to live there.

None of this is intended to suggest that gentrification doesn't cause problems, but when you say this:

"Abject poverty siting cheek

> by jowl with wealth, in traditionally working

> class neighbourhoods. "

it's as well to remember that before the wealth arrived there was poverty sitting cheek by jowl with more poverty - not something that many people want to preserve. The focus should be on spreading the wealth, not chasing it away.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I only see a problem of high rents / ridiculous property prices. It's easy to direct ones anger at a mild, bespectacled hipster, but it doesn't get us very far. We need to build more council housing and take measures to ensure reasonable commercial rents for small businesses / start ups. Otherwise the city will become completely devoid of character / diversity. It's nothing to do with beards... or cereal.

[bejam]

DaveR Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "Why people feel the need to resort to violence is

>

> > beyond me, especially when it's aimed at a

> private

> > individual who's just trying to create a

> business

> > for themselves. I fear these people are using

> > gentrification as a justification for mindless

> > violence, however, it still doesn't detract from

>

> > the wider argument that gentrification is

> causing

> > a culture of 'them and us' to develop around the

>

> > inner London boroughs. Abject poverty siting

> cheek

> > by jowl with wealth, in traditionally working

> > class neighbourhoods."

>

> This is the thought a lot of people have, but its

> a bit more complicated than that. Apart from

> anything else, most of the 'protesters' are not

> local in the sense of the word that most people

> understand - the two I have seen quoted are an

> artist who moved to Shoreditch 15 years ago (when

> it was cheap) and an American professor. There

> was a thread on here a while back about

> 'regeneration' in Brixton, and the opposition to

> that. Local newspapers quoted local families

> saying they were in favour of regeneration - it

> was bringing better jobs and generally more money

> to the area - and the protesters were largely

> incomers, albeit those who had moved to Brixton 15

> years ago (when it was cheap). And I remember the

> same divide when Spitalfields market was being

> redeveloped, and I was living nearby. There was

> almost complete disagreement between the

> artists/traders etc who had moved into the area

> (when it was cheap) and the local, largely

> Bangladeshi families who were quite keen on seeing

> the City and associated employment) spreading

> east. And let's not forget that the communities

> that are now considered local in Brixton

> (Afro-Caribbean) and the East End (Bangladeshi)

> were not themselves made exactly welcome back in

> the early days.

>

> The fact is that London changes all the time, and

> the pattern of gentrification has often been the

> same. Cheap inner london areas are 'discovered'

> first by young cool types, and once the area has a

> buzz about it more (and more mainstream)

> businesses come in, property prices rise, and so

> on. The people who shout the loudest are usually

> the initial pioneers who are priced out - real

> long term residents are often happy to sell up,

> take the cash and move to the suburbs, or stay on

> in the knowledge that even if their kids are

> priced out, gentrification always brings more

> money into the area and that's likely to be a good

> thing overall. It's certainly the case that a

> house owned by a high earning family who employ a

> childminder and a cleaner, use local tradesmen to

> do up their house and a local garage to service

> their car, will contribute more to the local

> economy than a houseful of artists who bought the

> place for peanuts when no one wanted to live

> there.

>

> None of this is intended to suggest that

> gentrification doesn't cause problems, but when

> you say this:

>

> "Abject poverty siting cheek

> > by jowl with wealth, in traditionally working

> > class neighbourhoods. "

>

> it's as well to remember that before the wealth

> arrived there was poverty sitting cheek by jowl

> with more poverty - not something that many people

> want to preserve. The focus should be on

> spreading the wealth, not chasing it away.

Deciding on a conclusion and then looking for the evidence to back up your conclusion isn't good practice you know

just saying

[DaveR]

"Deciding on a conclusion and then looking for the evidence to back up your conclusion isn't good practice you know

just saying"

If you have an actual opinion on anything, feel free to share it. Whether you have any evidence or not.

[Loz]

bejam Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Deciding on a conclusion and then looking for the

> evidence to back up your conclusion isn't good practice you know

Can't be worse practise than quoting half a page of text just to add a one-line non-sequitur.

[Bob Buzzard]

Help! I'm still unclear after all these postings about the ?3.20 per bowl(!) cereal cafe - is my planned hipster get-up authentic or not? (I've stopped shaving and I've ordered some tortiseshell thick rimmed glasses from Paine & Hunter. Should I get some tight jeans and a country style tweed jacket? What about Converse basketball trainers - are they ok?)

[Jeremy]

Everyone with half a brain cell understands the downside of gentrification, but I'm quite sure that a bunch of crusty squatter types (sorry, "class war anarchists") throwing paint at the stupid cereal caf? isn't going to help. Most of them probably needed a map to find Brick Lane.

[Louisa]

Tbh anywhere north of the river and I need a map. Londoner by birth, south Londoner by the grace of God.

Louisa.

[bejam]

Keep your hair on David. I am not interested in whatever agenda is driving you to be so utterly, utterly seething, but take some time to construct your rants and you may find a more receptive audience