New to the area - need school advice

[Vulfin]

Hello everyone, my 2 daughters and I are planning to move to ED from the United States. The girls are 11 and 14 years old and I want them to be happy with the school we decide on, both socially and academically. Can you make suggestions about local schools please? Thanks so much.

[Chick]

Greetings and welcome to ED. My children have been to Akes in New Cross which I found good academically but not so hot on pastoral care, Charter which I have mixed feelings about but one School I would definitely recommend is St. Saviours at the bricklayer?s arms, near the Elephant & Castle. I am not going to openly criticise schools on this medium but if you PM me with an email address I will give you a more in-depth opinion. PS what part of the states are you in and why are you moving to England, just being nosey!

[Otto]

Hi-

I am also American - I have one child in state, and, one private. Just to warn you --the school issue is a minefield here in London with regard to class issues on state v private -- brace yourself!!! In my eyes, it is an academic issue. I will venture to say James Allen's Girl's School and Alleyn's are the best available schools for girls (though private) and are difficult to gain entry for. On the state side, I've heard good things about Charter, but, it will not be anything near the caliber of a private education. There. I've said it. Oh dear...

[candj]

Hi Vulfin,

Aside from the recommendations above, you should do a search on the forum for both Charter and Kingsdale the two state secondary schools in the area both having really good reputations and both getting increasingly difficult to get into. Besides Alleyn's and JAGS, there are also other private schools for girls including Streatham and Clapham and Sydenham High to look into. Saying it all is a minefield is putting it lightly!

Good luck with your move.

-C

ps-I'm also an American living in ED.

[Vulfin]

Yes, I'm beginning to see the minefield of implications where schools are concerned. So much easier here in Florida. We just keep lowering the bar so that everyone can feel good about their education. I say this mockingly but really my question is, in what way do public and private schools differ there? I find that over here, the state schools cannot touch the private schools in academics, but at some point I withdrew my girls from expensive private schools because I was not very happy with the social environment, nor were the girls. Switching them to (what we call) public schools made them happier in their social interactions and I fill in gaps at home that are being left academically, such as ANY information about, oh let's say, European history for instance.

To the American's out there, how would you compare schools in London to schools in the US?

Thanks by the way for the quick answers :))

[Ann]

Hi Vulfin,

I'm not American (although I have worked over there) but I do have experience in the UK of both the private and State school system.

Most private schools here are selective which means passing an entrance test to get in, you therefore don't the mixed ability classes that non selective comprehensives do. This coupled with smaller classes means they are almost all very good at getting results at GCSE and A level.

My daughter is at Streatham and Clapham High and we think it's a very good school ( and gets very good results) but not as academically competitive as JAGS or Alleyns where the standards are high but the students work very hard. No-one gets good results out of nothing.

How-ever many children can also do very well in Comprehensives and go on to top Universities. My son is very happy at his. The intake in most Comprehensives is varied but most children will settle in with their own peer group.

All schools will have good teachers and a child willing to learn will do very well.

Also Private schools tend to stick to the traditional subjects at GCSE and A level whereas some Comprehensives now teach more vocational subjects at NVQ.

Good luck

[Doodles]

When are you coming over? Think you need to start applying now for next year!

[katgod]

I think the idea of mixed ability classes referred to above could be misleading. Many (most?) comprehensives will stream children by ability, and teach in ability groups. So if you are good at science you may be in top set, and if poor at French in a lower set for that subject. Mixed ability teaching is likely only in smaller schools that don't have the range of ability to stream. Also many comprehensives have intake bands - not Charter or Kingsdale so far as I know, but others in the area do - so 20% of the intake will be in the highest ability band, 20% in the lowest, with similar bands in the middle. So the school gets a broad spectrum of ability.

[Vulfin]

Please forgive my ignorance in that regard, but it is rather complicated. How does the intake work for Charter and Kingsdale? Also katgod, when you say they are teaching in ability groups, am i correct in understanding that the grouping varies by subject and not by class level? So my daughter being good in maths but not so great in languages would be accomodated by a "slower" group for language and advanced group for maths? We dont usually have that benefit here in Florida. If determined that a child is slower than average in one area chances are that child ends up in a group that works slower in all subjects, which causes problems of course.

[Ann]

I'm not sure if katgos was referring to my post when he/she said most Comprehensives have mixed ability classes. What I said was that they have mixed ability intakes, whereas most private schools don't.

However I can confirm that most schools will stream the children according to ability, and yes, a child could be in top set for maths and bottom set for languages. In other words classes are arranged so that children can have lessons directed at their particular ability. Better to achieve a C grade in maths , than lose out by struggling with brighter students who can get an A* without too much bother.

There are also lower and higher tier papers, so not all students sit exactly the same papers but not all grades can be achieved.

I rather fell we've caused you more questions than answers!

[Vulfin]

Ann, not at all, you have all been very helpful and so quick to assist. I am truly amazed at how well this forum and it's community works. Can't wait to become a part of it all.

[EDmummy]

You have asked about getting your children in the schools. As they are both over the age of entrance for Year 7 and too young for six form, it will be a matter of contacting the schools separately to find out their admission criteria. Both schools are likely to respond to emails. It may also help you decided where you will live (if you don't already have a place).

[lucky bob]

Hi all,

just to add to the discussion, we arrived in London a month or so ago and my daughter started at Kingsdale 4 weeks ago as a music scholar, a few days ago she solemnly declared that she wants to move into the school and never leave it.

This is after me worrying all summer as to whether she will be happy/bullied/challenged/accepted etc.

She has been moved up into a higher set as soon as it came to the teacher's attention that she was not being challenged - and is very happy with this set up.

I do not really understand the streaming system as it does not exist where I come from - but there does seem to be a vast difference in the classroom atmosphere depending on what set it is. The set she was in previoulsy although fun and welcoming was apparently very loud and disruptive. It seems to me unfair not to offer all the children the same level of focus and concetration - is ability always linked to behaviour or does it become a vicious circle.

Anyhow forgive my thinking out loud - what I wanted to say is that regardless of top, middle or bottom sets the children at Kingsdale seem to be very happy and my daughter was happy in both the sets she has experienced. The music department is brilliant so if your children have musical aptitude they will be given loads of opportunities to develop and expand ...

[minder]

Only just seen this thread so just commenting.

Otto - oh dear, you have said it! "On the state side, I've heard good things about Charter, but, it will not be anything near the caliber of a private education". By the way, caliber is spelt calibre over here. I know a lot of words are spelt differently in the States but just pointing it out.

I can't believe you've not been challenged over such an elitist remark.

Also, regarding class issues and schools - it's what you want for your child, I suppose. Being in Dulwich there are a lot of private schools around, but Dulwich contains a mixed bunch of people from every walk of life and not everybody can afford to send their kids privately.

Lucky bob - glad your daughter has settled into Kingsdale, sounds like she will do really well.

That's another point about schools - if your child wants to learn and has the right mindset and abilities, he/she will succeed in most things. Just because they've had a private education doesn't mean they're going to get good exam results.

I know I've said it before but The Charter is getting good exam results - my son and lots of his peers did really well in their GCSEs - some getting 10 or more A and A stars.

My daughter in Year 9 is also doing really well, and my 11 year old also.

[sillywoman]

minder Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Only just seen this thread so just commenting.

>

> Otto - oh dear, you have said it! "On the state

> side, I've heard good things about Charter, but,

> it will not be anything near the caliber of a

> private education". By the way, caliber is spelt

> calibre over here. I know a lot of words are

> spelt differently in the States but just pointing

> it out.

>

> I can't believe you've not been challenged over

> such an elitist remark.

>

>Yeah minder, I spotted it, but thought it said more about the poster's attitude than The Charter's credibility so let it lie. I'm guessing others felt the same?

My experience at The Charter so far is similar to yours. My very academic year 9 daughter (age 13), and her friends are being challenged, but not overwhelmed (they're doing Latin - Woohoo!). Meanwhile my up to now totally unacademic yr 8 boy (age 12) has been so encouraged that he's found himself this year in the top maths and science sets for the first time in his life. the best thing about the school though is the social mix. My daughters friend from primary who went to private schools are mixing with very different social groups, placing very different expectations on both them and the parents. Expectations we couldn't hope to meet. The Charter was the right place for us, if I was applying for schools now I'd be really torn as to whether to put Charter or Kingsdale down as a 1st choice though. they're both really good.

[josiebee]

St Dunstans College in Catford private school well worth having a look at. It may not have the amazing facilities of somewhere like Alleyns, nor such amazing results, but it has very good results and very good facilities and very happy children. It also has a much more socially mixed intake which is good and offers a lot of scholarships and bursuries. The teachers have always seemed competent and friendly and the school has a good feel about it. It is easily accessible from Dulwich. If you are looking for schools for your daughters it is definately worth checking out. It also does the international baccalaureate in sixth form which I think is a very good option. If you have any more queries about it you can pm me.

[Smiler]

Vulfin, setting aside the arguments about state vs private schools, you should be aware that admissions to state secondary schools in the area (and indeed other areas of London) is a hot potato at the moment, and schools each have their own admissions criteria (see other threads on this forum).

[Vulfin]

Good point smiler. We are applying to a few schools in the area and can then hopefully sort through our options.