Is the Stop The War Coalition a waste of time?

[reggie]

East Dulwich has its own branch of the Stop The War Coalition.

What do you think of efforts made by local people in support of this campaign?

[Huguenot]

Can you clarify reggie, is it a 'waste of time' because it's not active enough, or because it's lost its focus?

I'd argue that if it was the latter, then reduced activity would be a good thing - no-one needs a loose cannon aboard.

I must admit I haven't got a clue what 'Stop The War Coalition' is all about, not because I don't understand the concept of 'Stop The War', but because they've branched out and affiliated into a hundred other anti-globalism, anti-administration, anti-development causes. It's all Wolfie Smith.

What you need is a well-paid authoritarian marketing director to get things back on course.

I also think it's kind if daft - wars are conflicts of resource or ideology. It's naive to imagine that a unilateral pull back of UK or US armed forces is likely to do anything but create a temporary hiatus in destruction for pampered western middle classes. The issues over resource and ideology would remain unresolved.

Or is that the case really, 'Stop The War' are the new flagellants, trying to persuade the whole of western society to wear a hair shirt for the sins of our fathers?

[Huguenot]

And another note, if 'Stop The War Coalition' is a reasonable outfit, why do they keep rolling out that c*ck George Galloway as their spokeman?

[reggie]

I was being artfully vague in order to inspire discussion.

[reggie]

In what way can we resolve issues of ideology in this country and therefore stop the war?

[Keef]

Huguenot Wrote:

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> And another note, if 'Stop The War Coalition' is a

> reasonable outfit, why do they keep rolling out

> that c*ck George Galloway as their spokeman?

Quite!

[Huguenot]

"In what way can we resolve issues of ideology in this country and therefore stop the war?"

I think you kind of nailed the problem there reggie, in the sense that it's an extraordinarily simplistic approach.

[reggie]

You mentioned that war is about resources and ideology and that resolving these issues is what is needed.

Do we not have the ability to resolve our own ideology?

[Mark]

Can someone please clarify, when they say "Stop The War", which war are they referring to? Is it all wars or a specific war?

[reggie]

this is what it says on the stop the war website.. but is also admits that broader aims may apply.

The aim of the Coalition should be very simple: to stop the war currently declared by the United States and its allies against 'terrorism'. We condemn the attacks on New York and we feel the greatest compassion for those who lost their life on 11th September 2001. But any war will simply add to the numbers of innocent dead, cause untold suffering, political and economic instability on a global scale, increase racism and result in attacks on civil liberties. The aims of the campaign would be best expressed in the name Stop the War Coalition

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

So it's not stop a war/s at all, but stop being vigilant in the face of terrorism?

[Brendan]

I think the idea is that ?terrorism? doesn?t just happen. It isn?t unprovoked.

People don?t just wake up one morning and decide to blow themselves up for no reason.

[reggie]

Peckhamgatecrasher Wrote:

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> So it's not stop a war/s at all, but stop being

> vigilant in the face of terrorism?

I suggest that vigilance is a different thing from war.

War is bombs,invasion,mass killings,etc

Vigilance is security checks,police,searches etc

[SeanMacGabhann]

it does sound, PGC, that you believe the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are somehow making "us" safer....

I have yet to hear ANYONE give a convincing argument for that.

[Brendan]

Upon consideration I suppose people do sometimes just wake up and decide to wreak havoc. Mohamed or Jesus may tell them to.

Or perhaps Ares or a tokoloshe tricks them into it.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Or maybe just Rumsfield/Cheney

[Huguenot]

No, I don't think so SMG

*scratches head*

I think war is a kind of yin and yang thing that is subordinate to tribal convictions. Fat superannuated Americans just capitalise on the opportunity.

I think the job of a clever oik is to manage but not attempt to prevent the consequence. It's like a leaky hosepipe, it's always gonna burst somewhere.

In that sense we're in the least destructive period of documented history.

[Santerme]

Yes is the answer, it hasn't achieved anything

[reggie]

Santerme Wrote:

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> Yes is the answer, it hasn't achieved anything

would you like it to achieve something?

[Huguenot]

Is there something that can be achieved?

Is war just a safety valve?

[SeanMacGabhann]

crazy talk H

[mockney piers]

I like to think that war is entered into a little less likely than venting some societal pressure

Afghanistan was about primarily about revenge and secondly about destroying al-Qaeda and punishing those who harboured them. We all entered into it because that's what NATO are supposed to do when one of is atttacked.

The problem was we suddenly remebered we're the good guys and we should do some nation building and throw a bit of demcracy in if we can. Both were done half heartedly and in an ersatz fashion. If we'd been pragmatic we'd have left them to it and dropped a few more bombs if the Taliban managed to oust the nasty warlords we put in power.

I think there were a series of agendas on Iraq, they have all been long discussed on here, but war on terrorism it most certainly wasn't. I think Blair was earnest in thinking it was about making the world safer and removing an 'evil' man from power, which just makes him stupid.

Safety valve though? A bit wishy washy that.

[reggie]

Once soldiers get killed and the politicians look foolish then pulling out gets harder and harder. Nation building started when we realised we couldnt 'win' but had to keep going with a new goal in mind.

Is east dulwich ready to help stop the war?

How is your safety valve Huguenot..still got some puff left?

[Mark]

I don't know if the Stop The War Coalition's a waste of time but its website comes across in a very Millie Tant style. It could have more effect on the British public if it appealed to them, rather than just appealing to people who want to protest.

And personally I don't like headlines like "The world says: troops home from Afghanistan now" - which I know is not true because I haven't been asked.

And they don't give many solutions as an organisation, it's all "that's bad", "that's bad" and "that's bad too". Do they have any viable solutions? Stop the War... and then what?

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

'S'not what I meant at all, Sean. I think I have misunderstood the phrase 'War on Terrorism'.