Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Did anyone see Julie Burchill's doc about 'Chavs'?

Have to say I've since thought twice about using the word and feel a bit uncomfortable when the word gets bandied around in public (especially by the educated middle class)


The English language is chock full of fantastic cuss-words. It is the best language in the world for swearing in. The trick is to use the words sparingly to the right effect. If every other word you say is 'fuck' or 'cunt' then what's the point?


There aren't many words which I actually find offensive. I can only really think of 'nigger' and 'faggot'.

I am proud to be working class, and more than a touch chavvy. I used to fight, and loved scaring the crap out of posh kids, cos they tried to look down on me. My mum was a social climber and I became a social decender in response. Loved every minute of it, but then decided I wanted to prove I could do the middle class stuff so got a law degree, and am growing my own veg, but I'm still a chav through and through, and love chav life!

I'm off the opinion that if Julie Burchill is for something, I'm agin it. She was very quick to point out that because that girl in the Bb house wasn't working class she got off lightly compared to Jade, which I really disagree with


I think words can only be offensive if the intent is so - that is why, for example, I think the Jade Goody/ Indie Music girl incidents on BB were quite different. That shouldn't give anyone a blanket excuse to say whatever they like mind you


The n word is a good example - among black britons it appears to be still taboo if my friends are representative. But the US seem to have moved the word on to a different place. Watching The Wire of late (yes, another plug for the best TV show ever) it's a word that is used far from sparingly and it's always amongst friends. I suspect this is how teh BB contestant got it so wrong...

What really upsets me is that people like the twatty "Little Britain" couple who are elite educated, are allowed to attack poor people and chavs calling it comedy and this is considered acceptable and prime-time veiwing. Like I said before if you did the same type of thing but replaced chav for black, asian or some other oppressed group you would rightly be seen as a bigot and face possible criminal charges, but the the poor are a group of oppressed who have been persecuted throughout history with impunity, unless their labour is needed (or they have fought and won concessions from the elite), then they become the proud working class, until they become surpless to requirements again and are discarded.


But they don't disappear (although Churchill wanted to make that happen by promoting sterilisation for all poor women), they merely become marginalised and it makes me sick seeing how the poor working class have become feared and hated by pretty much everyone.

ChavWivaLawDegree - interesting background but I'm not sure - why did you reach the "I wanted to prove I could do the middle class stuff " stage.


And while some posh people do enjoy looking down on working class people, it ain't a given. Some working class people assume that all middle-class people are tossers and end up hurting people who have no grievance with them at all. I wouldn't say that's something to be proud of

From Wikipedia:



Chav or Charv/Charver even Chavster (male) and Chavette (female) ('ch' pronounced as in chair) is a mainly derogatory slang term in the United Kingdom for a subcultural stereotype fixated on fashions derived from American Hip-Hop (African-American) and Guido (Italian-American) fashions and stereotypes such as gold jewellery and designer clothing combined with elements of working class British street fashion. Chavs are generally considered to have no respect for society, and to be ignorant or unintelligent. The term appeared in mainstream dictionaries in 2005.[1][2]


The defining features of the chav clothing in the Burberry pattern (notably a now-discontinued baseball cap) and from a variety of other casual and sportswear brands. Tracksuits, hoodies, sweatpants and baseball caps are particularly associated with this stereotype. Response to the term has ranged from amusement to criticism that it is a new manifestation of classism. [3] The term has also been associated with delinquency, the "ASBO Generation", "Hoodie culture" and "yob culture".


The accepted etymology for "chav" is that it derives from the Romani word "chavi", meaning a child.[4] Related words derived from the same source include "charva" (used in northern England in a similar sense) and perhaps the obsolescent "young shaver" (meaning a boy). In modern Spanish "chaval" means "lad".[5]

ChavWivaLawDegree is right.. to a certain extent.


Though I feel I ought to point out that if you hadn't have 'loved fighting and scaring the crap out of posh kids' when you were young then those kids might not need use the word 'Chav' in order to try and assert their superiority (over people they are afraid of) in later life.


RE Julie B, I disagree with 80% of what she says but miss her Guardian column very much. She was, however, spot-on about 'Chavs'.

SeanMacGabhann - cos I always knew I could but never wanted to before.


I also got fed up with middle class people I talked to saying, "You're actually quite intelligent aren't you" and having to say "I know, but why did you assume I wasn't?" knowing it was because of my accent and my rough edges. So now I'm a Chav with a Law degree, I can tell them this immediately and they don't have to go through all that embarrassing stuff, of discovering I'm not as thick as their pre-conceived notions of class made them think I was.


TedMax - I'm crap with a spray can. Why did you ask?

>>There aren't many words which I actually find offensive. I can only really think of 'nigger' and 'faggot'.<<


"spaz", "crip", "muffdiver", "chav" as well as the words you cite, are all apparently in this weird category of words that are offensive unless used self-descriptively. I have never been happy with this new phenonemenon (at least I think it is new) of worda that have a kind of two-tier offensiveness rating.

Chav, I do sympathise with you to quite an extent, but you're not helping stereotypes, and may indeed be as much a culprit yourself when you define working class as fighting and scaring posh kids, and middle class as getting an education and gardening.


I know that a large proportion of those that I studied with came from poorer backgrounds, mostly from yorkshire, Lancashire and the west midlands (I went to Keele). My own father is resolutely working class, largely autodidactic and managed to end up a tour guide teaching art, architecture and culture to people from all over the world.

He, in my experience never once resorted to violence (well, maybe one incident involving a neighbours house and some bangers but I probably deserved a clip round the ear). Of course he survived a civil war and didn't have the luxury of associating violence with a bit of a larf.

ChavWithALawDegree I sympathise with your frustrations re. being patronised by posh people. But I don't understand why you choose to brand yourself a "chav" as if to suggest that all working class people are chavs by default. I know working class people who would be totally offended by this. I also think boasting about fighting is a bit dubious too.


If you really were a chav you probably wouldn't know it.

Mockney - I was the kid in (rough as arseholes) school who all the teachers wanted to go to Uni because I found academic work easy, but I was more interested in sport, boys, smoking a few spliffs round the bike shed etc (much more fun!). So I ran riot for about 30 years, popped out 4 kids (to 3 dad's) and finally decided to have a go at uni at the age of 39. Gotta admit I loved it, and yes some of the posh people there were actually very nice people, not as condecending as my pre-conceived notions of them made me believe they would be! My kids are all suprisingly well balanced individuals in case you were wondering - even I never quite expected that.


I also took up Taekwondo in my early 20's and was legally permitted to kick the sh** out of people and fought in the UK nationals. I think what the problem in our society is that the kind of people who would have evolved as brilliant hunter/gatherers are not really suited to our sedentary and over complex, logo-centric society and need more positive outlets for their lack of fear and physical energies.


James - I suppose I want to claim the label chav, because the problem with being working class and accepting what is and is not acceptable as being the middle/upper class norms many working class aspire to; is that you look fake and will still be looked down on by the middle/upper classes anyway. So I guess its just my way of saying that I don't accept those norms and don't feel the need to smooth the harshness in my personality to make the middle/upper classes feel secure and comfortable.

Well you actually sound alot more balanced than you give credit for.

If it's any consolation I went to a comp with a good mix of kids from the middle class estates and the so called rougher estates and we all mixed pretty well.


I think casual violence is pretty much endemic to the whole english experience. What I like about London is you're much less exposed to it; every time I head back to Herts it's everpresent and usually shocks me even though I spent 18 years with it all around such that I barely registered it.


I managed to balance my interests in drugs, petrol bombs and girls (the last being mostly aspirational and theoretical if I'm going to be honest with myself) and generally stupid behaviour with a path that ended up with university and borderline alcoholism. Still it all more or less panned out in the end.


Totally agree with you about our sedentary lifestyle. That coupled with the politics of envy and a culture of consumption is a large part of why society is going a little bit loopy at the moment.


any way, where we....flipping nonces* was it?


*yes *Bob* it would seem the sweary-mary filters are on, this was as close a match as I could think of at short notice

That's all very well CWALD, but what we want to know is - do you prefer Ciabatta or Sourdough?


Sounds like you were rebelling against quite a lot back in the day...


I was in a similar school/position from 12-16 but didn't take the education route either. (Still haven't)

Didn't take a "me against the world route" either - i just left home to see what was out there.


Interesting last point you make too. But you have got a cheeky streak so you might have been satirising....

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Latest Discussions

    • The is very low water pressure in the middle of Friern Road this morning.
    • I think mostly those are related to the same "issues". In my experience, it's difficult using the pin when reporting problems, especially if you're on a mobile... There's two obvious leaks in that stretch and has been for sometime one of them apparently being sewer flooding 😱  
    • BBC Homepage Skip to content Accessibility Help EFor you Notifications More menu Search BBC                     BBC News Menu   UK England N. Ireland Scotland Alba Wales Cymru Isle of Man Guernsey Jersey Local News Vets under corporate pressure to increase revenue, BBC told   Image source,Getty Images ByRichard Bilton, BBC Panorama and Ben Milne, BBC News Published 2 hours ago Vets have told BBC Panorama they feel under increasing pressure to make money for the big companies that employ them - and worry about the costly financial impact on pet owners. Prices charged by UK vets rose by 63% between 2016 and 2023, external, and the government's competition regulator has questioned whether the pet-care market - as it stands - is giving customers value for money. One anonymous vet, who works for the UK's largest vet care provider, IVC Evidensia, said that the company has introduced a new monitoring system that could encourage vets to offer pet owners costly tests and treatment options. A spokesperson for IVC told Panorama: "The group's vets and vet nurses never prioritise revenue or transaction value over and above the welfare of the animal in their care." More than half of all UK households are thought to own a pet, external. Over the past few months, hundreds of pet owners have contacted BBC Your Voice with concerns about vet bills. One person said they had paid £5,600 for 18 hours of vet-care for their pet: "I would have paid anything to save him but felt afterwards we had been taken advantage of." Another described how their dog had undergone numerous blood tests and scans: "At the end of the treatment we were none the wiser about her illness and we were presented with a bill of £13,000."   Image caption, UK pet owners spent £6.3bn on vet and other pet-care services in 2024, according to the CMA Mounting concerns over whether pet owners are receiving a fair deal prompted a formal investigation by government watchdog, the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA). In a provisional report, external at the end of last year, it identified several issues: Whether vet companies are being transparent about the ownership of individual practices and whether pet owners have enough information about pricing The concentration of vet practices and clinics in the hands of six companies - these now control 60% of the UK's pet-care market Whether this concentration has led to less market competition and allowed some vet care companies to make excess profits 'Hitting targets' A vet, who leads one of IVC's surgeries (and who does not want to be identified because they fear they could lose their job), has shared a new internal document with Panorama. The document uses a colour code to compare the company's UK-wide tests and treatment options and states that it is intended to help staff improve clinical care. It lists key performance indicators in categories that include average sales per patient, X-rays, ultrasound and lab tests. The vet is worried about the new policy: "We will have meetings every month, where one of the area teams will ask you how many blood tests, X-rays and ultrasounds you're doing." If a category is marked in green on the chart, the clinic would be judged to be among the company's top 25% of achievers in the UK. A red mark, on the other hand, would mean the clinic was in the bottom 25%. If this happens, the vet says, it might be asked to come up with a plan of action. The vet says this would create pressure to "upsell" services. Panorama: Why are vet bills so high? Are people being priced out of pet ownership by soaring bills? Watch on BBC iPlayer now or BBC One at 20:00 on Monday 12 January (22:40 in Northern Ireland) Watch on iPlayer For instance, the vet says, under the new model, IVC would prefer any animal with suspected osteoarthritis to potentially be X-rayed. With sedation, that could add £700 to a bill. While X-rays are sometimes necessary, the vet says, the signs of osteoarthritis - the thickening of joints, for instance - could be obvious to an experienced vet, who might prefer to prescribe a less expensive anti-inflammatory treatment. "Vets shouldn't have pressure to do an X-ray because it would play into whether they are getting green on the care framework for their clinic." IVC has told Panorama it is extremely proud of the work its clinical teams do and the data it collects is to "identify and close gaps in care for our patients". It says its vets have "clinical independence", and that prioritising revenue over care would be against the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons' (RCVS) code and IVC policy. Vets say they are under pressure to bring in more money per pet   Published 15 April 2025 Vets should be made to publish prices, watchdog says   Published 15 October 2025 The vet says a drive to increase revenue is undermining his profession. Panorama spoke to more than 30 vets in total who are currently working, or have worked, for some of the large veterinary groups. One recalls being told that not enough blood tests were being taken: "We were pushed to do more. I hated opening emails." Another says that when their small practice was sold to a large company, "it was crazy... It was all about hitting targets". Not all the big companies set targets or monitor staff in this way. The high cost of treatment UK pet owners spent £6.3bn on vet and other pet-care services in 2024 - equal to just over £365 per pet-owning household, according to the CMA. However, most pet owners in the UK do not have insurance, and bills can leave less-well-off families feeling helpless when treatment is needed. Many vets used not to display prices and pet owners often had no clear idea of what treatment would cost, but in the past two years that has improved, according to the CMA. Rob Jones has told Panorama that when his family dog, Betty, fell ill during the autumn of 2024 they took her to an emergency treatment centre, Vets Now, and she underwent an operation that cost almost £5,000. Twelve days later, Betty was still unwell, and Rob says he was advised that she could have a serious infection. He was told a diagnosis - and another operation - would cost between £5,000-£8,000.   Image caption, Betty's owners were told an operation on her would cost £12,000 However, on the morning of the operation, Rob was told this price had risen to £12,000. When he complained, he was quoted a new figure - £10,000. "That was the absolute point where I lost faith in them," he says. "It was like, I don't believe that you've got our interests or Betty's interests at heart." The family decided to put Betty to sleep. Rob did not know at the time that both his local vet, and the emergency centre, branded Vets Now, where Betty was treated, were both owned by the same company - IVC. He was happy with the treatment but complained about the sudden price increase and later received an apology from Vets Now. It offered him £3,755.59 as a "goodwill gesture".   Image caption, Rob Jones says he lost faith in the vets treating his pet dog Betty Vets Now told us its staff care passionately for the animals they treat: "In complex cases, prices can vary depending on what the vet discovers during a consultation, during the treatment, and depending on how the patient responds. "We have reviewed our processes and implemented a number of changes to ensure that conversations about pricing are as clear as possible." Value for money? Independent vet practices have been a popular acquisition for corporate investors in recent years, according to Dr David Reader from the University of Glasgow. He has made a detailed study of the industry. Pet care has been seen as attractive, he says, because of the opportunities "to find efficiencies, to consolidate, set up regional hubs, but also to maximise profits". Six large veterinary groups (sometimes referred to as LVGs) now control 60% of the UK pet care market - up from 10% a decade ago, according to the CMA, external. They are: Linnaeus, which owns 180 practices Medivet, which has 363 Vet Partners with 375 practices CVS Group, which has 387 practices Pets at Home, which has 445 practices under the name Vets for Pets IVC Evidensia, which has 900 practices When the CMA announced its provisional findings last autumn, it said there was not enough competition or informed choice in the market. It estimated the combined cost of this to UK pet owners amounted to £900m between 2020-2024. Corporate vets dispute the £900m figure. They say their prices are competitive and made freely available, and reflect their huge investment in the industry, not to mention rising costs, particularly of drugs. The corporate vets also say customers value their services highly and that they comply with the RCVS guidelines.   Image caption, A CMA survey suggests pet owners are happy with the service they receive from vets A CMA survey suggests pet owners are happy with their vets - both corporate and independent - when it comes to quality of service. But, with the exception of Pets at Home, customer satisfaction on cost is much lower for the big companies. "I think that large veterinary corporations, particularly where they're owned by private equity companies, are more concerned about profits than professionals who own veterinary businesses," says Suzy Hudson-Cooke from the British Veterinary Union, which is part of Unite. Proposals for change The CMA's final report on the vet industry is expected by the spring but no date has been set for publication. In its provisional report, it proposed improved transparency on pricing and vet ownership. Companies would have to reveal if vet practices were part of a chain, and whether they had business connections with hospitals, out-of-hours surgeries, online pharmacies and even crematoria. IVC, CVS and Vet Partners all have connected businesses and would have to be more transparent about their services in the future. Pets at Home does not buy practices - it works in partnership with individual vets, as does Medivet. These companies have consistently made clear in their branding who owns their practices. The big companies say they support moves to make the industry more transparent so long as they don't put too high a burden on vets. David Reader says the CMA proposals could have gone further. "There's good reason to think that once this investigation is concluded, some of the larger veterinary groups will continue with their acquisition strategies." The CMA says its proposals would "improve competition by helping pet owners choose the right vet, the right treatment, and the right way to buy medicine - without confusion or unnecessary cost". For Rob Jones, however, it is probably too late. "I honestly wouldn't get another pet," he says. "I think it's so expensive now and the risk financially is so great.             Food Terms of Use About the BBC Privacy Policy Cookies Accessibility Help Parental Guidance Contact the BBC Make an editorial complaint BBC emails for you Copyright © 2026 BBC. The BBC is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read about our approach to external linking.
    • What does the area with the blue dotted lines and the crossed out water drop mean? No water in this area? So many leaks in the area.
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...