latest on the South London Line Campaign

[pmcmullan]

Would you need the lawyer to work for free? I do know a barrister who may be able to help - she's not local and she's already on quite a large enquiry so not sure if she'd have time, but if you don't ask, you don't get...

Paula McMullan

[Huguenot]

"Quite clearly therefore you agree that the area desperately needs this service"

That's just rubbish R&A, and poor technique. It seems a bit like sounding clever is more important than honesty.

If you go back over this and threads passim, my main complaint is that we actually don't know whether the area needs this service more than than any other area needs their service.

There are fixed budgets here, and the rail authorities need to provide a reasonable service to all.

Instead of facts and clear explanation we've had highly polarised arguments based on self-indulgence. This change in scheduling has been represented as service cutting by faceless administrators with a grudge against Southwark residents. I've questioned the motivation behind such an unreasonable approach.

I propose that if we're a little more grown-up about it, we'll find that everyone is working hard to find the best-fit solution that takes into account everyone's needs.

That means less agitation, and more open-minded investigation. That may not suit the needs of local politicians as election day approaches, but it is more likely to create better solutions.

[R&A]

I was trying to address your point regarding house prices and i'm sorry if i don't have good technique. I'm not a lawyer or a trained debater, i'm a member of the public trying to stick up for a local campaign.

As Boris heads up transport surely it's his job (alongside the transport minister etc) to weigh up the pros and cons for various different areas of greater london. All we can do is put our area's case forward. There's nothing stopping other areas doing the same thing.

I think your point is valid IF we were discussing new services for the area. The facts are the SLL is an established service that is being removed. It's like being forced to reapply for your current job.

I suggested we take this discussion off this thread as we're going round in circles and i feel it's getting personal. Happy for you to PM me or you could start a thread in the lounge...

No wonder Eileen starts a new thread each time .....

[reggie]

Huguenot Wrote:

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> I propose that if we're a little more grown-up

> about it, we'll find that everyone is working hard

> to find the best-fit solution that takes into

> account everyone's needs.

I applaud your trusting attitude Huge not. Daddy knows best.

I am not sure that your attitude is completely grown up either.

[Huguenot]

;-)

I won't take it offline either - that's just a way to stifle dissent.

I'm clearly not entirely growed-up. This one just rankles.

It's entirely possible that the rail authorities don't have a case. It's also possible that they do have a case, and don't have a s*it hot PR machine. TJMP and Eileen do have a s*it hot PR machine, and it panders to the lowest possible taste.

That makes bad solutions.

Because locals are conflicted on this one, I'm carrying the candle.

I don't like Eileen creating a new thread on this one every time because it's hiding intelligence and debate, it deletes the moderate views. Do you know what, she'll probably create a new thread next time she has some news?

Tessa's on the right political horse in that sense. But respect zero.

Is it worth being in charge if you don't make good decisions?

[Applespider]

Well, I'll light a candle for those who do quite like getting different threads when there's news on what's happening.

Otherwise, you end up with an old thread constantly reappearing on the front page. While some people would read all the way through before hitting reply, there are quite a few who don't. They read the first posts and then start replying with questions/answers to things that have long since gone by the wayside. As the thread grows - as it would with an issue that's been running and will run for some time - it gets more and more unlikely that people will go back and reread the full thread. The new news gets buried at the bottom and harder to find and comment on.

I suspect that there's a difference in what Eileen intends her threads to do and what you expect them to do. Does she see them as more of an information posting rather than something to invite and encourage discussion? Perhaps we need a 'community notices' section that 'information only' posts could get slotted into?

I do see your point Huguenot about it being possible that there is more than one community that needs a train service and that someone needs to make the overall decision. But I don't think it's unreasonable that a community shouts about its need - the squeaky wheel gets the oil after all. And there's nothing to stop any other community (or its elected representatives) doing the same. Perhaps we need greater transparency from those making the decision on why they've chosen it (i.e. explaining that greater need and why it outweighs the local one).

I am slightly biased in that I do catch a train to/from Victoria most weekdays and evenings so I'm very grateful to Eileen and co for campaigning and keeping us up to date. And no, it's not about house prices for me - it's about the increased time and hassle of interchanging at Clapham Junction (the UK's 2nd worst station) for commuters at peak (from Wandsworth Road/Clapham High St who don't have the option of the fast trains) and for patients at Kings trying to negotiate the stairs between platforms there.

[James Barber]

Hi Huguenot,

Earlier post you suggested rail budgets are fixed.

The subsidy may be but the revenue is not.

At many points on the South London Line the ticket offices are rarely open, no barriers and very rare enforcement - Denmark Hill, South Bermondsey immediately come to mind.

Oyster Pay As You Go starting in early January should help. I suspect the SLL has many more passengers than recorded. Network Rail states underused service yet quite often when I've travelled on it, it feels crowded.

Similar problem to the bendy or 'free' buses.

I'm hopeful that the Oyster PAYG might throw up some surprising passenger usage figures that ensure SLL isn't wrongly dumped.

[Huguenot]

Valid point.

Mind you, they'd be daft to do passenger counts from tickets sales - as it would miss all the season ticket holders too.

[Gimme]

Gimme Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If you go for the Victoria to Dartford option, any

> chance of asking for it to start running a bit

> earlier?

> It is one of the best ways to get to Canary Wharf

> / Docklands (changing at Lewisham) but the first

> train is 8.31 from Denmark Hill which makes

> getting in early difficult.

Eileen, you are amazing!!! There is now a Dartford train at 7.52am and 8.19am from Denmark Hill. How did you do it?

[Eileen]

Gimme Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Gimme Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > If you go for the Victoria to Dartford option,

> any

> > chance of asking for it to start running a bit

> > earlier?

> > It is one of the best ways to get to Canary

> Wharf

> > / Docklands (changing at Lewisham) but the

> first

> > train is 8.31 from Denmark Hill which makes

> > getting in early difficult.

>

> Eileen, you are amazing!!! There is now a Dartford

> train at 7.52am and 8.19am from Denmark Hill. How

> did you do it?

God knows...

[Martyn]

Boris Johnson is deciding this month whether to axe the South London Line. The link below lets you send him a letter to ask him to reconsider and only takes about 1 minute to do. If it is something you care about I think it would be 1 minute well spent.

http://www.facebook.com/l/f1266;www.southlondonpress.co.uk/tn/mayorletter.cfm