Political correctness gone mad

[Alan Dale]

The more 'feral' elements of our press love to berate perceived political correctness in all its forms.

I personally don't really think that the term has any real value - everything is political and things are either correct or incorrect. Furthermore I would dismiss the idea that identifying things as being politically correct somehow undermines their validity.

Has anyone got any real life examples of 'political correctness gone mad' that they think validate the case for applying the term or can we just condemn 'PC' to room 101?

[James]

Political correctness is a phenomenon, hoever anyone feels about it. You can't just consign it to Room 101 any more than you could Marxism, Thatcherism or any other movement.

[Asset]

but did pc not come about in order to stop people slagging off people in wheelchairs, making jokes about race or religion etc. Is it not the case that pc can equate to consideration for others. In which case it is a good thing, however I do agree that it is an overused term and is somehow seen as derogatory

[Alan Dale]

Thanks James and Asset. I should be more precise in my request.

I would like to consign the use of the term to rebuff arguments and ideas, to room 101.

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with being politically correct.

[Keef]

I just don't see why they need to call general equality political correctness. It's a stupid term.

As for the PC gone mad thing, I can see why people get p!ssed off if they work in the public sector, as you get some really really stupid people being paid a lot of money to come up with social and work inclusion and equality plans, which make no sense to anyone despite colour or creed!

[Jah Lush]

Alan Dale Wrote:

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> In my opinion there is nothing wrong with being

> politically correct.

Surely what is and what isn't PC is a matter of opinion Alan?

[James]

I think it's much more complicated than that. I hate it when people like Littlejohn and his ilk use it to rebuff any attempt to be fair and tackle discrimination. Thank God we are not still living in the racist, sexist, homophobic 70s.

But I think it's also fair to say that political correctness has a lot to answer for. If you look at the ideas behind communism they were quite noble, high-minded and unlike the corrupt reality they became. In a similar way political correctness started out as a way of getting people to understand how language can entrench prejudice and social divisions. Quite true. But it has now become a dogma whereby people communicate in a kind of doublespeak reminiscent of Orwell's "newspeak". Rather than helping society to be fair to all races and minorities, it increases the gap between what people say and what they actually believe. It breeds resentment because it papers over untruths with other untruths.

[Brendan]

I agree James. There are times when it is just used as a way to cover up inherent prejudice. Or where its use just highlights prejudice.

[Alan Dale]

This is very topical in the light of Bernard Manning's demise:

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/marcus_brigstocke/2007/06/surplus_manning.html

I take your point about Newspeak. It is true that the acceptable terms used to address race for example are constantly changing and I feel sorry for people who are chastised for using the term 'coloured' which causes the offence they are quite clearly trying to avoid. If you're not up to date with the language then you are labelled racist.

I agree that there is an element of tyranny to it too in that people are told what they can and can't say rather than fully educated as to the reasons why they can and can't say things. That said I believe a tyranical culture of tolerance is preferable to allowing intolerance to spread.

The problem is that the people in a position to bridge the gap are our 'feral' media who have no interest beyond increasing their readership. They are more likely to put a crow bar into the cracks you mentioned.

TB's legacy speech made a lot of references to his role in promoting the now dominant culture of tolerance. I think he does deserve some credit.

[Asset]

Alan - Feral is spelled with one R.

Or is it not PC to point out someone's failing in the spelling dept?

All other spelling and punctuation exemplary by the way.

[Jah Lush]

Well said James. Unfortunately there are still certain loathsome people like the aforementioned Richard Littlejohn (Smallprick?) in the Sun who are still living in the 70s and then you have newspapers like the Daily Mail and the Express who are still living in the 1950s FFS, spreading their vile prejudices.

[Alan Dale]

Thanks. I will edit it.

Please note, that was a spelling mistake not a typo.

[Keef]

I had literally never read a Daily Mail until I picked one up on a train last week and had a quick look. To quote Dulwichmum, "OHMYGOD!!!" it really was quite shocking!

[Alan Dale]

Agreed. And it is Britain's second biggest selling daily.

In actual fact some of the opinions and beliefs that may be taken as axioms on the East Dulwich Forum are considered offensive to large swathes of Britain.

I will never move out of London. Imagine drinking in a pub surrounded by people who are terrified of paedophiles and immigrants despite never having encountered either. Never again.

[mockney piers]

Are we talking about Cleethorpes again?!?!

[Alan Dale]

More the villages in the marshes but it's a national phenomenon.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Keef - seriously? Never read the Daily Mail before? Lucky you, but the shock must have been immense

As for PC - I would say that 9/10 times when the usual suspects start banging on about PC gone mad there is no substance to any of the argument. Schools and councils don't ban Christmas for fear of upsetting Muslims. The EU didn't ban bendy bananas. And so on... So before we go down the pro/anti PC argument can people come up with some genuine instances of "PC gone mad?"

[Keef]

Actually Sean, I'm pretty sure Lambeth did ban Christmas lights a couple of years back for just that reason (well not just Muslims, but non christians).

I have a colleague who I'm pretty sure actually reads the Mail, and PC gone mad is one of his favourite subjects... He is really funny though, so I don't mind too much >:D<

RE The villages... I was in a pub in Winchelsea (near Rye) a couple of weeks back, and the locals at the bar were discussing the introduction of recycling in the area. They were not happy about it I can tell you!

[Jah Lush]

Alan Dale Wrote:

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> This is very topical in the light of Bernard

> Manning's demise:

I think we should hunt down and shoot and kill Jim Davidson as an act of political correctness or is that PC gone mad?

[citizenED]

Christmas lights are not allowed to be so called. They are Festive Lights. Come on you guys, get with the PC programme.

We should not say ...man, as in postman, fireman, policeman. We should use the word bod instead. Its non-gender specific and will promote equality. We get postbods, policebods and we take our complaints to the ombudsbod!

citizen

[SeanMacGabhann]

With you on that one Jah

As for Lambeth... hmmm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Borough_of_Lambeth#Christmas_controversy

[Keef]

Theres always a handy office junior to blame! ;-)

[Brendan]

I have a friend who is a police constable. He was at my party on Saturday night and behaved very badly indeed. ::o

[Jah Lush]

I guess that makes him human.

[James]

"a tyranical culture of tolerance is preferable to allowing intolerance to spread"

I sort of agree with this. But then the problem becomes how is this "tolerance" defined and by whom? The Guardian-reading elite? (I speak as a guardian-reader btw!)

However I think the PC culture has made notable advances. For example the Sun now portrays black people positively (although it has switched to other targets like immigrants and travellers and "mad mullahs"). We are also getting far less of the "GAY AFFAIR! UGH! A POLITICIAN IS GAY! AAAAAAGH! DISGUSTING!" type headlines. I think they realise that public opinion has shifted so they just can't get away with this kind of bullying any more.

Interesting that the rightwing press - like the major Western religions - repeatedly lag behind society in intolerance and prejudice. Every now and then they get a kick up the arse and move forward a bit. It wasn't that long ago that the Telegraph was sympathising with the Nazis (but they like to forget that now).