Southwark Plans for Camberwell Old & New Cemeteries.

[penfold]

nice to see the graves being uncovered - thanks for the photos Blanche

[Blanche Cameron]

Temporarily. The newly exposed headstones are to be removed and the graves covered in crushed building waste to create new burial plots.

[dbboy]

And your proof of your statement is ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Blanche Cameron]

Area Z, Camberwell Old Cemetery

There was a stump and before that an entire tree.

[penfold]

I think its so exciting that graves, previously lost, are now being found and the history is now being uncovered. the fact that the graves had fallen into such disrepair and were buried beneath undergrowth and trees surely indicates the lack of family local and able enough to care for them over the years. Maybe now people may be more able to trace long dead relatives and understand better their family history.

Blanche - whilst you are there taking photos of wood chips and tree stumps, could you also get a few close ups of the headstones? Maybe we could even have a new thread to try and track down any existing relatives!

[Blanche Cameron]

The memorials of the poor dead in the 'public' areas are to be removed and recorded. What they will do with the memorials we do not know. Photo attached is of Area F on Woodvale in the Old Cemetery (a 'public' area), where memorials were removed, graves mounded over and new plots sold on top of the dead.

Later, should Southwark get permission to 're-use' private graves (and it is expected) - the memorials of the better off will be removed, the dead dug up and the grave deepened. The remains of the dead will be put in the bottom of the grave and new bodies will buried on top of them with new headstones. What they will do with the old headstones we do not know.

For more information on the digging up of the dead: http://www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk/grave-reuse-unacceptable/4593658115

[Blanche Cameron]

Area F on Woodvale. Area Z on Underhill Road after public graves were stripped and mounded.

[dbboy]

Have you even thought about seeking the views of the Vicar at St Augustine's Church on One Tree Hill, NO, I did't think you'd bothered.

[geneie]

I agree, it's exciting that gravestones are now emerging and should be recorded before whatever happens next to them. There may be relatives who had no idea they were there, and with family history much more accessible these days it could be possible to find living relatives.

[Abe_froeman]

The cemeteries are looking so much better in those recent photos.

[oddlycurious]

Southwark get permission to 're-use' private graves (and it is expected) - the memorials of the better off will be removed, the dead dug up and the grave deepened

You say removed when it's more likely to be just moved to elsewhere in the cemetery.

[Otta]

Given the huge trend towards zombie movies and tv shows in recent years, I think SSW's next tact should be to convince Southwark that disturbing these graves could potentially unleash a zombie apocalypse on East Dulwich and Honor Oak.

They could submit a YouTube link to the Thriller video as evidence.

It would have about as much basis in truth as anything else they've ever tried.

[Blanche Cameron]

The future of London's cemeteries with a few before and after photographs.

http://www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk/who-is-stealing-cemeteries/4593762863

Blanche Cameron

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries / Save Southwark Woods Campaign

07731 304 966 [email protected]

[www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk]

Twitter: @southwarkwoods Facebook: Save Southwark Woods

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries was founded as Save Southwark Woods in January 2015 to stop the destruction of the woods and graves of Camberwell Old and New Cemeteries.

We are for maintaining recreational activities already taking place on cemetery grounds, such as the Recreation Ground and the Allotments.

[oddlycurious]

Blanche, before and after comparison photos at least need to be shot from the same angle. You've juxtaposed random shots of greenery with photos of the work in progress.

[ruffers]

Maybe they confused themselves when making up names for places?

Wood Vale Meadow?

[Siduhe]

It's difficult to tell from the small photo, but I'm pretty sure that shot of "Wood Vale Meadows" [seriously?] isn't of Area F - which is what the second "after" photo shows. It looks much more like a shot taken from the top of Area Z facing up towards the rest of the cemetery.

I've kept out of the recent discussions because I do think there's a genuine discussion to be had about the Council's plans especially at Camberwell New Cemetery even though I'm pro-creating burial space. Save Southwark Woods is getting in the way of that on here, but more hyperbole like this really isn't helping the cause.

[taper]

Agreed. I was in the wooded area of COC on Sunday with my dog. Very pleasant and it would be dreadful if it was bulldozed over. Equally, there were a lot of people visiting graves for mother's day in the "Wood Vale Meadow." It was quite moving and it struck it is absolutely in the public interest for Southwark to make what provision they can locally, in a balanced way - one which enhances and protects that which is worth protecting.

[Blanche Cameron]

Area F Woodvale, Camberwell Old Cemetery in 2012 before the graves were mounded over and a old hawthorne hedgerow was cut down. And in February of this year.

[Siduhe]

@taper - couldn't agree more.

@Blanche Cameron - "an old hawthorne [sic] hedgerow" - I think you may be mis-remembering what what ran along the back wall of the cemetery along Wood Vale. There was the occasional hawthorn bush but it was largely brambles, cow parsley and other bushes and a favourite place to pick blackberries. As far from being an old hawthorn hedgerow as it's possible to be.

Just to check I'm not mis-remembering, I've gone back to the Phase 1 docs (which I have kept and posted up on here before) and they confirm this:

Alongside the Wood Vale wooden close boarded boundary fence was an intermittent row of mature and semi mature trees and saplings including ash, sycamore and lime trees with groups of outgrown suckering elm, and a rare occurrence of birch, horse chestnut, oak mostly growing amongst a variable width of bramble with areas of ivy, the occasional hawthorn bush, and an associated strip of rough grassland with patches of cow parsley

As I say above, it's incredibly difficult to engage with your group seriously about this issue when you make these grand pronouncements that aren't based on anything.

[andrewc]

Blanche are you trying to say that those two photos represent a 'then' and 'now' of the same spot?

[Otta]

This is the whole problem. It's certainly not that there is no discussion to be had about a lovely place. But these twerps are just making a mockery of... well everything.

[Siduhe]

On my walk past COC along Wood Vale this am, before the gates opened, I took a shot over the fence - this is about 12m after the end of Area F where they haven't cleared the inside of the fence, although they have cut it back. This is exactly what used to run along the entire fence by Wood Vale including Area F.

[Blanche Cameron]

Area F, Woodvale Camberwell Old Cemetery and the Rec Ground Site at Camberwell New Cemetery.

Blanche Cameron

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries / Save Southwark Woods Campaign

07731 304 966 [email protected]

[www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk]

Twitter: @southwarkwoods Facebook: Save Southwark Woods

Friends of Camberwell Cemeteries was founded as Save Southwark Woods in January 2015 to stop the destruction of the woods and graves of Camberwell Old and New Cemeteries.

We are for maintaining recreational activities already taking place on cemetery grounds, such as the Recreation Ground and the Allotments.

[oddlycurious]

Blanche,

Your latest SSW 'press release' is a list of questions you demand the council and church answer. Regular readers of this forum will appreciate the irony given you've refused to answer any questions on here. The fact you've not copied and pasted as per usual suggests you know you're on dodgy ground. If you are keen for transparency and honesty you can answer these questions and any others that are raised

1. Why have SSW/FOCC associated with far right groups on social media?

2. A question was raised by UKIP at the London Assembly the other week; you chose not to publicise it when you generally RT every comment that backs your point of view - why was this?

3. FOCC - who is the chairman of the friends group, how were they elected and how can the public join and steer this group?

I'm sure other regular readers of this thread will have questions that you'll be happy to answer in public here.

[mynamehere]

Have a look in today's Guardian Magazine.