Mick Mac Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 France is apparently giving serious consideration to making it illegal for women to wear the Burka in public in France.As they say - "When in France...."Nothing wrong with that? And should we follow suit? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/9654-france-leads-the-way-on-the-burka/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
brum Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 So should we ban Nuns wearing habits too? Mick you have started something here.... Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/9654-france-leads-the-way-on-the-burka/#findComment-288083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Mac Posted January 21, 2010 Author Share Posted January 21, 2010 a thread? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/9654-france-leads-the-way-on-the-burka/#findComment-288085 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladymuck Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Mick Mac Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> a thread?Yep can't argue there. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/9654-france-leads-the-way-on-the-burka/#findComment-288089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brum Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Well, putting it like that, yes. But the topic also...oh dear.... Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/9654-france-leads-the-way-on-the-burka/#findComment-288090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladymuck Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 brum Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> Well, putting it like that, yes. But the topic> also...oh dear....You can talk...with your "naughty" thread...Personally I think this thread should be merged with my thread on Islam4UK...the two were made for each other Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/9654-france-leads-the-way-on-the-burka/#findComment-288092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Mac Posted January 21, 2010 Author Share Posted January 21, 2010 brum Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> So should we ban Nuns wearing habits too? > > Mick you have started something here....Catholic woman do not cover their faces, or dress differently from other women in France - but nuns wear particular headgear, agreed. France is a catholic country and will have to address the nun issue in the same way if it forces through these changes for muslims. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/9654-france-leads-the-way-on-the-burka/#findComment-288093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
woofmarkthedog Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Mick Mac Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> France is apparently giving serious consideration> to making it illegal for women to wear the Burka> in public in France.> > As they say - "When in France...."> > Nothing wrong with that? And should we follow> suit?______________________________________________________They can wear the Purka though Which is kinda contradictoryW**F Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/9654-france-leads-the-way-on-the-burka/#findComment-288098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
computedshorty Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 ? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/9654-france-leads-the-way-on-the-burka/#findComment-288100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brum Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 oh dear.. oh dear... Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/9654-france-leads-the-way-on-the-burka/#findComment-288104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Mac Posted January 21, 2010 Author Share Posted January 21, 2010 computedshorty Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> How would a bus driver know that the person> wearing a Burka is the person entitled to the Bus> Pass.> Should a grouup of these ladies mug a person how> would you pick out the assailent.> If a person comes to live in this country they> must conform to the ways of those who live here.> Would we allow a native from darkest Africa who in> his home area would only be covered in coloured> paint to cover his nudity, walk around Dulwich?I think we probably allow anyone to wear as little as they wanted provided it did not contradict our laws on public decency. What is different with the Burka is that in the west many people think it demeans women. Now whilst that may be ok in other countries, demeaning women should not be allowed here, whether its based upon religion or not. The debate will be whether wearing the burka demeans women in general and the muslim religion obviously believes this not to be the case, but France is of the view that it does and France does not want its residents being treated in this way. Obviously if France had been a traditionally Muslim country it may come to a different conclusion. But in my opinion its view is an objective one, for the good of all its citizens. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/9654-france-leads-the-way-on-the-burka/#findComment-288118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brum Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Some would argue that Western clothing for women can also be very demeaning. Should mini skirts be banned too? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/9654-france-leads-the-way-on-the-burka/#findComment-288124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Mac Posted January 21, 2010 Author Share Posted January 21, 2010 The point is Brum, that it is religion that promotes the Burka to be worn, its not always a woman's personal choice. A miniskirt is in most cases personal choice. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/9654-france-leads-the-way-on-the-burka/#findComment-288125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loz Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Devil's advocate questions ('cause I can't make up my mind on this one, though I can't work out how you would police a ban anyway))Should hoodies be banned in shopping centres?Should motorbike helmets be banned in banks?Heathrow T5 relies on face recognition for controlling international and domestic travellers. Should burkas be banned from T5? Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/9654-france-leads-the-way-on-the-burka/#findComment-288127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendan Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 There is some precedent for this. In Turkey it is illegal to wear religious dress (be it Muslim, Christian or Jedi) in public. Although it is a very different country from France but they saw a definite need to enforce secularism to a certain degree. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/9654-france-leads-the-way-on-the-burka/#findComment-288173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendan Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 computedshorty Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> Would we allow a native from darkest Africa who in> his home area would only be covered in coloured> paint to cover his nudity, walk around Dulwich?Sheesh.. I?ll cover up next time ok. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/9654-france-leads-the-way-on-the-burka/#findComment-288175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
???? Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I'm uncomfortable with the 'state' telling anyone how to dress Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/9654-france-leads-the-way-on-the-burka/#findComment-288177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendan Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I?m uncomfortable with the state. I?m also uncomfortable in a dress. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/9654-france-leads-the-way-on-the-burka/#findComment-288180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
???? Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I think you look great in one Brendan...think about your image not your comfort. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/9654-france-leads-the-way-on-the-burka/#findComment-288182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I agree with ????'s . It makes the assumption that all muslim women are forced to wear Burka's. I've met many muslim women who seem happy enough to be covered up.Interestingly, a few years ago France banned the wearing of head scarves for all muslim schoolgirls, so I suppose this is a step on from that law. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/9654-france-leads-the-way-on-the-burka/#findComment-288184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Mac Posted January 22, 2010 Author Share Posted January 22, 2010 ???? Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> I'm uncomfortable with the 'state' telling anyone> how to dressYes fair enough - but democratic law should overide religious practice in all cases, so if they do bring it in I think it will need to be complied with. If they do bring it in, they need to apply the same mentality to all religions. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/9654-france-leads-the-way-on-the-burka/#findComment-288202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izodia Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 France is a catholic country and will have to address the nun issue in the same way if it forces through these changes for muslims.Actually France is a secular country. Many of them are catholics but officially the state is separate from religion. This is why to get married in France you need to do it legally in the town hall before having a religious ceremony. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/9654-france-leads-the-way-on-the-burka/#findComment-288204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Mac Posted January 22, 2010 Author Share Posted January 22, 2010 Izodia Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> France is a catholic country and will have to> address the nun issue in the same way if it forces> through these changes for muslims.> > > Actually France is a secular country. In terms of a religious majority - France is a Catholic country. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/9654-france-leads-the-way-on-the-burka/#findComment-288207 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeckhamRose Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I argued about the fairness and reasonableness of not being allowed to wear my helmet in supermarket when I was told that it was because they could not see my face. I said (having lifted my visor) they can not only see my face they can see what colour lipstick I am wearing and that a camera could see my bike when I drove away and I offered my Drivers Licence. I then said why don't they suspect women in full burka dress and that this was discrimatory since I do not live by a religion I can hide behind. He agreed and let me go. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/9654-france-leads-the-way-on-the-burka/#findComment-288226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsebox Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 computedshorty Wrote:-------------------------------------------------------> If a person comes to live in this country they> must conform to the ways of those who live here.> Would we allow a native from darkest Africa who in> his home area would only be covered in coloured> paint to cover his nudity, walk around Dulwich?I'm going to bite, even though I believe that you are a (convincing) troll.You assume that everyone choosing to wear the Burka is an immigrant.What about those born here who choose to wear it?By your ruling, they're exempt from the ban.And 'darkest' Africa? Nice. Link to comment https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/topic/9654-france-leads-the-way-on-the-burka/#findComment-288230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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