France leads the way on the Burka

[Mick Mac]

France is apparently giving serious consideration to making it illegal for women to wear the Burka in public in France.

As they say - "When in France...."

Nothing wrong with that? And should we follow suit?

[brum]

So should we ban Nuns wearing habits too?

Mick you have started something here....

[Mick Mac]

a thread?

[Ladymuck]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> a thread?

Yep can't argue there.

[brum]

Well, putting it like that, yes. But the topic also...oh dear....

[Ladymuck]

brum Wrote:

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> Well, putting it like that, yes. But the topic

> also...oh dear....

You can talk...with your "naughty" thread...

Personally I think this thread should be merged with my thread on Islam4UK...the two were made for each other

[Mick Mac]

brum Wrote:

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> So should we ban Nuns wearing habits too?

>

> Mick you have started something here....

Catholic woman do not cover their faces, or dress differently from other women in France - but nuns wear particular headgear, agreed.

France is a catholic country and will have to address the nun issue in the same way if it forces through these changes for muslims.

[woofmarkthedog]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> France is apparently giving serious consideration

> to making it illegal for women to wear the Burka

> in public in France.

>

> As they say - "When in France...."

>

> Nothing wrong with that? And should we follow

> suit?

______________________________________________________

They can wear the Purka though

Which is kinda contradictory

W**F

[computedshorty]

?

[brum]

oh dear.. oh dear...

[Mick Mac]

computedshorty Wrote:

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> How would a bus driver know that the person

> wearing a Burka is the person entitled to the Bus

> Pass.

> Should a grouup of these ladies mug a person how

> would you pick out the assailent.

> If a person comes to live in this country they

> must conform to the ways of those who live here.

> Would we allow a native from darkest Africa who in

> his home area would only be covered in coloured

> paint to cover his nudity, walk around Dulwich?

I think we probably allow anyone to wear as little as they wanted provided it did not contradict our laws on public decency.

What is different with the Burka is that in the west many people think it demeans women. Now whilst that may be ok in other countries, demeaning women should not be allowed here, whether its based upon religion or not.

The debate will be whether wearing the burka demeans women in general and the muslim religion obviously believes this not to be the case, but France is of the view that it does and France does not want its residents being treated in this way.

Obviously if France had been a traditionally Muslim country it may come to a different conclusion.

But in my opinion its view is an objective one, for the good of all its citizens.

[brum]

Some would argue that Western clothing for women can also be very demeaning. Should mini skirts be banned too?

[Mick Mac]

The point is Brum, that it is religion that promotes the Burka to be worn, its not always a woman's personal choice. A miniskirt is in most cases personal choice.

[Loz]

Devil's advocate questions ('cause I can't make up my mind on this one, though I can't work out how you would police a ban anyway))

Should hoodies be banned in shopping centres?

Should motorbike helmets be banned in banks?

Heathrow T5 relies on face recognition for controlling international and domestic travellers. Should burkas be banned from T5?

[Brendan]

There is some precedent for this. In Turkey it is illegal to wear religious dress (be it Muslim, Christian or Jedi) in public.

Although it is a very different country from France but they saw a definite need to enforce secularism to a certain degree.

[Brendan]

computedshorty Wrote:

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> Would we allow a native from darkest Africa who in

> his home area would only be covered in coloured

> paint to cover his nudity, walk around Dulwich?

Sheesh.. I?ll cover up next time ok.

[????]

I'm uncomfortable with the 'state' telling anyone how to dress

[Brendan]

I?m uncomfortable with the state.

I?m also uncomfortable in a dress.

[????]

I think you look great in one Brendan...think about your image not your comfort.

[Ann]

I agree with ????'s . It makes the assumption that all muslim women are forced to wear Burka's. I've met many muslim women who seem happy enough to be covered up.

Interestingly, a few years ago France banned the wearing of head scarves for all muslim schoolgirls, so I suppose this is a step on from that law.

[Mick Mac]

???? Wrote:

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> I'm uncomfortable with the 'state' telling anyone

> how to dress

Yes fair enough - but democratic law should overide religious practice in all cases, so if they do bring it in I think it will need to be complied with.

If they do bring it in, they need to apply the same mentality to all religions.

[Izodia]

France is a catholic country and will have to address the nun issue in the same way if it forces through these changes for muslims.

Actually France is a secular country. Many of them are catholics but officially the state is separate from religion. This is why to get married in France you need to do it legally in the town hall before having a religious ceremony.

[Mick Mac]

Izodia Wrote:

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> France is a catholic country and will have to

> address the nun issue in the same way if it forces

> through these changes for muslims.

>

>

> Actually France is a secular country.

In terms of a religious majority - France is a Catholic country.

[PeckhamRose]

I argued about the fairness and reasonableness of not being allowed to wear my helmet in supermarket when I was told that it was because they could not see my face. I said (having lifted my visor) they can not only see my face they can see what colour lipstick I am wearing and that a camera could see my bike when I drove away and I offered my Drivers Licence. I then said why don't they suspect women in full burka dress and that this was discrimatory since I do not live by a religion I can hide behind. He agreed and let me go.

[Horsebox]

computedshorty Wrote:

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> If a person comes to live in this country they

> must conform to the ways of those who live here.

> Would we allow a native from darkest Africa who in

> his home area would only be covered in coloured

> paint to cover his nudity, walk around Dulwich?

I'm going to bite, even though I believe that you are a (convincing) troll.

You assume that everyone choosing to wear the Burka is an immigrant.

What about those born here who choose to wear it?

By your ruling, they're exempt from the ban.

And 'darkest' Africa? Nice.