Uber

[miga]

Here's another good thing about Uber. If you do have a problem, you report it, you get some credit, and the company addresses the problem with the driver and follows up quickly with feedback. Black cab drivers are obliged to take you to any "reasonable" destination within a certain distance of central London - so every time they refuse to drive you coz it's not on their way home, they're breaking the rules. But unless you have your wits about you, you won't have made note of their details to make a complaint, and if and when you do....yeah...

[LondonMix]

Uber drivers just like black cab drivers get to decide when and how much they want to work. Its not at all the same as zero hour contracts.

Most of the uber drivers I used in the US (specifically LA) were doing it to supplement income. They were writers etc that liked the flexibility of being able to work in the gaps they had when they could.

rodneybewes Wrote:

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> miga Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > > all prices and benefits down to the lowest

> > common

> > > denominator and we'll end up with thousands

> of

> > > people with no holiday or benefits chasing

> the

> > > same number of people.

> >

> > What holidays and benefits do black cab/minicab

> > drivers get?

> >

> > I get the tax thing - but I think the Uber

> model

> > is great.

> Black cabs get none, only a scant few cab firms

> do.

>

> The ease of uber is great. The economic model

> leaves nothing but Uber as it sets all drivers up

> against each other in a race to the bottom and the

> whole thing is predicated on not paying the same

> tax rates as other taxi models. It's interesting

> that the disgust of a few years ago about zero

> hours contracts has dwindled away to pretty much

> nothing. Give me convenience or give me death.

[Seabag]

I've never used Uber

But who cares

I said WHO CARES?

[rodneybewes]

miga Wrote:

>

> As I said, I get the company tax thing, they ought

> to pay it, but if they did that wouldn't sink them

> or invalidate the model. And it's always been one

> driver against another (or late on a Saturday in

> Soho, one passenger against another), this is just

> a more transparent system given it's based on

> proximity as measured by GPS. Also I disagree that

> if Uber "win" (debatable) they'll keep at being

> competitive - they'll up prices when there's no

> competition. As far as the technology goes though,

> everything is going in an Uber direction, it makes

> sense given we all have GPS now.

>

> Yeah, give me convenience or give me death, that's

> what we value as a society, capitalism is the

> worst ism, except for all the other isms we've

> tried before.

Oh absolutely, I completely agree that it's a much better user experience, don't have an issue with that at all. Agreed about the complaints system too. And as I said I don't have a huge amount of sympathy for cabbies. However they should be taxed in the same way, especially at point of sale, otherwise they have an unfair advantage. Don't agree they would raise their prices - that would encourage competition. It would make sense for them to increase the rake.

[rodneybewes]

LondonMix Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Uber drivers just like black cab drivers get to

> decide when and how much they want to work. Its

> not at all the same as zero hour contracts.

>

> Most of the uber drivers I used in the US

> (specifically LA) were doing it to supplement

> income. They were writers etc that liked the

> flexibility of being able to work in the gaps they

> had when they could.

>

That's sort of my point - it only allows one model. You can't make a full time living out of it and will drive out those people who currently do.

[LondonMix]

Why can't you make a full time living out of it. I think you can but you don't have to if you don't want to. I think the lower rates actually have increased the volume of business so overall the drivers do okay. I personally take twice the number of ubers than I ever took of cabs easily and I know others are the same.

[Parkdrive]

Strangely I have no sympathy at all for black cab drivers bleating about loss of earnings since the arrival of Uber. They've enjoyed a monopoly for decades and suddenly the overpriced service they provide is being challenged by afar more affordable alternative. The argument that black cabbies know here they are going is bollocks, I've been in a few where the driver clearly didn't have a clue. Most recently got in a black against my better judgment outside Cannon Street station and asked him to drop me at a pub in St Martins Lane, I had to direct him. So much for the knowledge. And the amount of times over the years that I've heard the phrase "I don't go south of the river" , finally the robbing F**kers have got their comeuppance. Long live uber

[Lazero]

Agree on Uber being amazing and some of the "issues" using black cabs over the years whilst living south of the river. I think there'll still be a place for black cabs, though. They are the only ones who can use bus lanes so are quicker for getting around central London. If work is paying and I'm staying in zone 1 then I'd happily take a black cab.

The Uber drivers I speak to mostly seem to make a full-time living from it, though they have complained about rates per mile going down as Uber continues to wage its market share war. A few seem to drive part-time for Uber, and at other times will do private work (e.g. airport transfers for a local minicab company).

I agree with LondonMix that Uber have grown the market. If anything I think they've helped to take cars off the road. Several of my friends have given up their cars recently, and cited Uber and Zipcar as the main reasons they feel they can do so.

[miga]

LondonMix Wrote:

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> Uber drivers just like black cab drivers get to

> decide when and how much they want to work. Its

> not at all the same as zero hour contracts.

Zackly. I think when people use the zero hours thing against Uber, it's in the context of a wider trend towards more insecure work. I'm not sure how that's applicable here, it's not like people are leaving formerly secure unionised factory jobs in their droves to drive Uber cars....

...the shaky nature of a lot of people's source of income is a good discussion to have, I just don't see how it fits into the Uber picture.

[DaveR]

Good story about Uber in Paris:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bf3d0444-e129-11e5-9217-6ae3733a2cd1.html#axzz42EFqpQ3K

"Uber?s success in the banlieues is a spontaneous response to decades of public policies that have failed to combat discrimination and boost job creation....

The benefits of Uber cabs go beyond economics, the drivers say: they improve social cohesion at a time when France, divided over its Muslim population, needs it badly.

?It?s two worlds meeting at last,? says Joseph Francois, who heads one of the largest minicab companies with 140 drivers. ?You?ve got young people from the suburbs transporting Parisian lawyers from Neuilly, artists, people coming from China or Australia. All of a sudden, social barriers and prejudices vanish. They talk. They have a better understanding of each other.?

[titch juicy]

miga Wrote:

- Also I disagree that

> if Uber "win" (debatable) they'll keep at being

> competitive - they'll up prices when there's no

> competition.

But, what's stopping other firms setting up using similar tech? There's space there for competing firms, which will hopefully keep prices low. OK, USPs might be a sticking point, but with the rise in electronic vehicles, smaller vehicles, driverless cars etc, I think this market has a long way to develop.

[miga]

That's one of the reasons I said it's debatable that they'll "win". There's still a need for black cabs to ferry people around zone 1, minicabs for airport transfers etc. And of course the apps aren't rocket science, there are already similar ones. I was more commenting on the idea that if Uber does become a monopoly, they'll do what monopolies do. But I think that's unlikely.

[titch juicy]

Gotcha

[Parkdrive]

Going on recent experiences in zone 1 , black cab drivers have about as much knowledge as I have of London's roads , as I posted previously one bloke asked me the way from Cannon Street to St Martins Lane. Makes you wonder how he passed the knowledge.

[rodneybewes]

titch juicy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> miga Wrote:

> - Also I disagree that

> > if Uber "win" (debatable) they'll keep at being

> > competitive - they'll up prices when there's no

> > competition.

>

>

> But, what's stopping other firms setting up using

> similar tech? There's space there for competing

> firms, which will hopefully keep prices low. OK,

> USPs might be a sticking point, but with the rise

> in electronic vehicles, smaller vehicles,

> driverless cars etc, I think this market has a

> long way to develop.

There are very few start-ups with pockets like Goldman Sachs. That's what you would be competing against. You'd be faced with a brand new start up against a loss-leader with an army of lawyers to deal with regulators.

Agree about the market having a way to go though, especially with driverless cars.

[rodneybewes]

DaveR Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Good story about Uber in Paris:

>

> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bf3d0444-e129-11e5-9217-

> 6ae3733a2cd1.html#axzz42EFqpQ3K

>

>

> "Uber?s success in the banlieues is a spontaneous

> response to decades of public policies that have

> failed to combat discrimination and boost job

> creation....

>

> The benefits of Uber cabs go beyond economics, the

> drivers say: they improve social cohesion at a

> time when France, divided over its Muslim

> population, needs it badly.

> ?It?s two worlds meeting at last,? says Joseph

> Francois, who heads one of the largest minicab

> companies with 140 drivers. ?You?ve got young

> people from the suburbs transporting Parisian

> lawyers from Neuilly, artists, people coming from

> China or Australia. All of a sudden, social

> barriers and prejudices vanish. They talk. They

> have a better understanding of each other.?

I read that article and have to say it sounds like tripe to me. As if there weren't minicabs with drivers of other nationalities before?

[titch juicy]

rodneybewes Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> titch juicy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > miga Wrote:

> > - Also I disagree that

> > > if Uber "win" (debatable) they'll keep at

> being

> > > competitive - they'll up prices when there's

> no

> > > competition.

> >

> >

> > But, what's stopping other firms setting up

> using

> > similar tech? There's space there for competing

> > firms, which will hopefully keep prices low.

> OK,

> > USPs might be a sticking point, but with the

> rise

> > in electronic vehicles, smaller vehicles,

> > driverless cars etc, I think this market has a

> > long way to develop.

>

> There are very few start-ups with pockets like

> Goldman Sachs. That's what you would be competing

> against. You'd be faced with a brand new start up

> against a loss-leader with an army of lawyers to

> deal with regulators.

>

> Agree about the market having a way to go though,

> especially with driverless cars.

Are they owned by Goldman Sachs? I had no idea.

[Jeremy]

titch juicy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Are they owned by Goldman Sachs? I had no idea.

No.. Goldmans helped them raise money (issuing securities and marketing them to private investors). There are plenty of other avenues they could - and did - use.

[DaveR]

"I read that article and have to say it sounds like tripe to me. As if there weren't minicabs with drivers of other nationalities before?"

I agree that the last bit seemed a bit over the top, but the economic point seemed compelling - heavily regulated taxi firms cosy up to the government and (like essentially every other institution or business in Paris) discriminate against guys from the poor suburbs, whereas Uber is open to anyone.

[rodneybewes]

DaveR Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "I read that article and have to say it sounds

> like tripe to me. As if there weren't minicabs

> with drivers of other nationalities before?"

>

> I agree that the last bit seemed a bit over the

> top, but the economic point seemed compelling -

> heavily regulated taxi firms cosy up to the

> government and (like essentially every other

> institution or business in Paris) discriminate

> against guys from the poor suburbs, whereas Uber

> is open to anyone.

I kind of see where they are coming from, it's just whenever I've taken a cab in Paris it's usually someone of non-European descent who's been the driver!