Petition to Save Fairlawn Nursery

[HannahSE23]

If you want to sign the petition, sign it. If you don't want to, don't sign it. Simple. I don't see the need to shoot the messenger.

Admin, can this thread be moved to the Family Room? It might be more relevant there.

[Loz]

yas Wrote:

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> well i have reported the trolls to admin now. so hopefully they can carry out their character

> assassinations elsewhere!

I think, given their previous post, paulino was saying that you, yas, are the troll.

Anyway, admin seems a sensible person, so I am happy that he/she will read the thread and see your complaints have little basis in fact.

[yas]

i tried to move it to family room but it was removed due to duplication.

i will continue with my campaigning until my deadline regardless of the trolls!

[Penguin68]

Just for the record, trolls are not just people who disagree with you. These are simply posters, just as you are, but not of your opinion. If you put forward views on a forum you must expect them to be open to challenge. You might note that Admin is very good at identifying the work of trolls, and removing it and/ or blocking them. But I agree the 'conversation' at the moment might as well be lounged.

[Growlybear]

But why are continuing with your campaign to save the nursery when the final decision was taken by the school's Governing Body over two weeks ago?

[yas]

Once again lovely East Dulwich Folks, Save Fairlawn Nursery! Please sign our petition, if you hadn't done so already! :)

[Growlybear]

It's all rather pointless. The decision to close the nursery has been made, and there really is no possibility of changing it now.

[yas]

well that's for the council to decide after we put our case forward!

[Growlybear]

Actually, it has nothing to do with the local authority. The future of the nursery is up to the governing body of the school and the governing body has already carried out a consultation process and taken a final decision to close the nursery. Your petition is directed at the wrong body and is several weeks too late.

[yas]

Growlybear, call me rude but if ppl took any notice on what you say, there would be no political campaigns in this lovely community of ours :)

[Penguin68]

I think that what he said was that you were addressing your concerns to the wrong authority and at the wrong time. Political campaigns (real campaigns, not virtue signalling) are about achievability - if I now start a campaign, addressed to the Pope, about stopping the building of the Channel Tunnel, and somebody points out that it's nothing to do with the Pope, and the Tunnel is built, they are not suppressing debate - they are simply identifying a reality. The Council were not party to the decision about the nursery, which has already been made following consultation.

Nobody doubts your sincerity in regretting the decision, indeed I doubt whether anybody would doubt that, were the finances to be there, continuing the nursery would not be a good thing; but your efforts, well-meaning as they are, are wrongly directed and untimely. Pointing this out is not about stifling debate but about evidencing its futility. And I have to stay that political campaigns which are the equivalent of tilting at windmills help nobody.

[Growlybear]

ThAnk you penguin - that's exactly what I was trying to point out. I've always been in favour of campaigns to try to bring about change but there is no point in campaigning against a decision that has already been made and to the wrong body. Your petition might have been considered if you had presented it to the governing body of the school before the consultation period ended but you didn't do that, and have chosen to start a pointless petition aimed at the wrong body after the final decision has been made.

[yas]

but but if we were the sort to follow your logic, in place of a lovely leisure centre in forest hill, we would have a block of flats and a tiny pool and in place of m & co (a much needed shop for mothers), we would have a morrisons!

please go ahead and conduct your evidence tour! :)

[Penguin68]

So you are saying that the Forest Hill Leisure Centre and the M&Co shop were both the result of petitions addressed to an authority without the power to make relevant decisions and after the final decision had been made? I must say that surprises me.

[Growlybear]

It really is like banging your head against a brick wall ! Once again, your petition is directed to a body that has no authority whatsoever in the decision that was made three weeks ago to close the nursery. You have sadly wasted your time in pursuing your petition - the decision has been made and can't now be reversed. As you clearly don't want to understand the decision making process involved in deciding the future of the nursery,I suppose there's really no way that you will actually accept this until September when the nursery doesn't reopen after the summer holidays.

[yas]

As I said please go ahead and conduct your evidence finding tour!

Back to our petition:

Even if our petition doesn't achieve its ultimate goal, i should hope it has contributed in highlighting how us families (middle classes and working classes alike) are affected by ill advised and UNNECESSARY cuts to our public services! Not to mention providing moral support to the staff who are about to be made redundant!

Please sign our petition!

[JoeLeg]

yas Wrote:

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> but but if we were the sort to follow your logic,

> in place of a lovely leisure centre in forest

> hill, we would have a block of flats and a tiny

> pool and in place of m & co (a much needed shop

> for mothers), we would have a morrisons!

>

> please go ahead and conduct your evidence tour! :)

Well, no, that's apples and oranges. All that's been pointed out to you is that the PRACTICAL effect of your petition will be nothing, because it is both late and misdirected. There is of course, as you point out, ample reason to continue with it to make a point about the issues, and as you say provide moral support, but it will do nothing to change what has happened because the local authority is not involved in the decision. It may however help further down the line when they are considering similar problems at borough level.

But I'm not sure what you mean by 'evidence tour'? Once again your the person putting up examples (Leisure Centre, M&Co) which don't seem relevant to your argument. Maybe I'm missing something; can you expand on it?

That's what I mean by apples and oranges; I can't see how the action my the local community in those cases is relevant to the situation with Fairlawn, given that it was two different bodies involved.

It looks like you're using reductio ad absurbum to disprove something that someone else isn't saying in the first place; no one here has said that local communities shouldn't be politically active - only that it needs to be done at the right time and to the right people, neither of which is the case here.

As you say, there are still good reasons for continuing with the petition, but being rude to people who you disagree with is unnecessary.

[yas]

both my husband and i were involved in consultations in respect to Forest Hill Leisure centre and rejected council's proposal. But they still pressed ahead with their proposals!

So yes, i do know what i am talking about!

likewise, of course we were involved in consultations in fairlawn nursery closure. but the school simply can't afford to keep any longer!

[nxjen]

I'm beginning to think Yas is just satirising the whole concept of petitions. I keep getting the image of Nigel explaining his amplifier goes up to 11.

[JoeLeg]

Question - were the council involved in consultation regarding the closure of Fairlawn nursery?

[dbboy]

From what has been written to date it was the Governing Body who made the decision to close and the Council were not involved although it appears they were involved in the consultation. Yas - is that the correct state of affairs?

[yas]

council wasn't. it was with the school! we have suggested fundraising but you can't run a nursery relying on fundraising year in year out! so there has to be a sustainable way of maintaining it.

[yas]

"I'm beginning to think Yas is just satirising the whole concept of petitions. I keep getting the image of Nigel explaining his amplifier goes up to 11."

How do you mean?

[yas]

"I'm beginning to think Yas is just satirising the whole concept of petitions. I keep getting the image of Nigel explaining his amplifier goes up to 11."

How do you mean?

So by your argument petition to save lewisham libraries is a waste of time?

[nxjen]

Lewisham Libraries is not ED related. Isn't it time this thread was lounged?