Forum Sponsors

Professional Carpet Cleaning at an affordable price - A & M Carpet Care
xxxx
Daisylets Residential Property Management

http://www.gardenia-gardens.com

Advertise here

The East Dulwich Forum
Which pubs, bars, restaurants and take-aways do you avoid?
Goto Page: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2
messagesweep your own leaves, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by ataubin 14 November, 2010 16:48

At the Community Council Meeting on 10 November at St Faith's we were told Southwark has to cut 80 million from its budget. But where? What if we make East Dulwich a trial, a model for community (tiny) action that saves mega bucks? If every one sweeps the leaves and clears the ice and snow from the 8 metres in front of their property the council would save up to 10 million pounds. Yes, you read that correctly: 10 million if everyone did it. Seems a small action to me to save a lot of money. In an entire year it might take one hour? two?. No leaf blowers, no trucks. 10 million saved.
I also think alot of money could be saved in a revamp of the Parking Authority (see my gripe about a ticket for a questionable offence): Pay and display and the High Street only. And what about a complete revamp of Building and Development? There must be millions to be saved, standards to be raised and loads of world quality apprentices to train.
Comments?
What if we went one further and made East Dulwich a Transition Town?

messageRe: SWEEP YOUR OWN LEAVES, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by hislordship 14 November, 2010 17:16

They appear to be saving money already by not collecting my recycling - it's almost 3 weeks since they last visited.

messageRe: SWEEP YOUR OWN LEAVES, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by James Barber 14 November, 2010 17:20

Hi hislordship,
If you let me know the details I'll happilly chase for you.

--------------------
Regards cllrjamesbarber@gmail.com
07900 227366
Liberal Democrat Councillor for East Dulwich Ward
Skype cllrjamesbarber
[www.jamesbarber.org.uk]
[twitter.com]

messageRe: SWEEP YOUR OWN LEAVES, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by Tarot 14 November, 2010 18:16

Good news about the Chandlers isnt it James.?thumbs up

messageRe: SWEEP YOUR OWN LEAVES, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by sophiesofa 14 November, 2010 18:48

Where did you get the "up to 10 million" figure from, was it from the meeting? I persnaly can't see it taking off enough and there would need to be a shed load of money spent to advertise this so people knew they had to. Also, the road sweepers would lose their jobs sad smiley

I am happy with the parking we have at the moment as I think pay and display would clog up the side roads even more and I don't want residents parking but that's just me.

Those are of course just my views and I do realise that the money needs to be cut somewhere, I just don't know where.

My boyfriend works for Southwark building services and his job is most certainly under threat, if not a substantial pay cut and we would then struggle to pay our mortgage.

I have no answers or solutions to offer so in a way my post is a bit pointless - sorry!

messageRe: SWEEP YOUR OWN LEAVES, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by EDmummy 14 November, 2010 19:13

Great idea and no problem doing it but my street has quite a lot of older people living on it. Would they be expected to clear up? If they don't then how will it work with half the street clear and the rest not?

Already we have kind residents ignoring fallen fruit littering the front of their house and the road for the entire late summer/autumn and the stench is horrific. The residents (two young couples) have not cleared up and neither have the council.

I would definitely prefer the council to save money on these types of services rather than on essential social services but there are definitely some holes in the idea.

messageRe: sweep your own leaves, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by kford 14 November, 2010 20:29

In Germany and parts of the US and Canada you have to clear the path in front of your house of snow by law.

messageRe: SWEEP YOUR OWN LEAVES, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by James Barber 14 November, 2010 21:05

The government has issued a Snow Code about clearing snow from pavements:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Nl1/Newsroom/DG_191868

--------------------
Regards cllrjamesbarber@gmail.com
07900 227366
Liberal Democrat Councillor for East Dulwich Ward
Skype cllrjamesbarber
[www.jamesbarber.org.uk]
[twitter.com]

messageRe: sweep your own leaves, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by PeckhamRose 14 November, 2010 21:12

We need to be told how to do everything!

Is there a code on how to sweep leaves?
I had a reply from the council about why they're using petrol driven hand held leaf blowers. Basically, it is to save money because lots of humans using brooms would cost them more.

So that's okay then.

--------------------
Humanist Funeral Celebrant

messageRe: sweep your own leaves, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by Narnia 14 November, 2010 21:14

So I presume more people would be made unemployed by this thus money would have to be spent supporting them and their families? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited to add that of course this would create jobs so people could monitor the unemployed and make sure they are not claiming benefits they shouldn't be.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2010:11:14:21:16:42 by Narnia.

messageRe: sweep your own leaves, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by James Barber 14 November, 2010 21:21

Hi PeckhamRose,
The Snow code highlights good practice to clear snow from pavements and paths such that you can avoid being successfully sued - which is a commonly given reason for people saying why they haven't cleared the pavement outside their home.

Hi Narnia,
Their will never be enough council employees to clear all pavements outside homes - hundreds of kilometres of pavements.
But if residents clear the pavement outside their home the effects of the snow would be dramatically reduced. This really helps reduce peoples isolation.

--------------------
Regards cllrjamesbarber@gmail.com
07900 227366
Liberal Democrat Councillor for East Dulwich Ward
Skype cllrjamesbarber
[www.jamesbarber.org.uk]
[twitter.com]

messageRe: sweep your own leaves, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by kford 14 November, 2010 21:45

How sad - the sooner no-win-no-fee lawyers are outlawed, the better.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2010:11:14:21:45:59 by kford.

messageRe: sweep your own leaves, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by sedgewick 14 November, 2010 22:37

ataubin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At the Community Council Meeting on 10 November at
> St Faith's we were told Southwark has to cut 80
> million from its budget. But where? What if we
> make East Dulwich a trial, a model for community
> (tiny) action that saves mega bucks? If every one
> sweeps the leaves and clears the ice and snow from
> the 8 metres in front of their property the
> council would save up to 10 million pounds. Yes,
> you read that correctly: 10 million if everyone
> did it. Seems a small action to me to save a lot
> of money. In an entire year it might take one
> hour? two?. No leaf blowers, no trucks. 10
> million saved.
> I also think alot of money could be saved in a
> revamp of the Parking Authority (see my gripe
> about a ticket for a questionable offence): Pay
> and display and the High Street only. And what
> about a complete revamp of Building and
> Development? There must be millions to be saved,
> standards to be raised and loads of world quality
> apprentices to train.
> Comments?
> What if we went one further and made East Dulwich
> a Transition Town?

Considering the amount of council tax we pay I personally wont be sweeping any leaves or clearing ice from the streets or taking part in any other activity that is supposedly covered by my paying of council tax.

messageRe: sweep your own leaves, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by Otto 15 November, 2010 10:21

Hurrah for clearing snow - yes - as an ex-New Englander it is something I've always done. The advantage to people doing it themselves is it can often be addressed at the time it is easiest to move it - just after it falls, and, before it is packed down with foot traffic. Everyone would voluntarily help the elderly with clearance, and, enterprising young children would often make a bit of pocket money from other houses who chose to hire someone...and, nostalgically, there was a warm bit of neighborhood camaraderie in the morning after a snowfall...

messageRe: sweep your own leaves, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by peterstorm1985 15 November, 2010 11:06

Narnia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So I presume more people would be made unemployed
> by this thus money would have to be spent
> supporting them and their families? Correct me if
> I'm wrong.
>
> Edited to add that of course this would create
> jobs so people could monitor the unemployed and
> make sure they are not claiming benefits they
> shouldn't be.

Absolutely agree Narnia. Road sweeping is a very low paid job so the saving to the taxpayer in overall cost between someone working or not working (they are unlikely to find work in the private sector at present) is insignificant so lets keep them in work.

Make cuts of middle or high earners in council services, not at the bottom

messageRe: sweep your own leaves, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by AcedOut 15 November, 2010 11:12

How far do we go with this? Self-policing? That would save billions!

messageRe: sweep your own leaves, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by Dorothy 15 November, 2010 11:38

The council did not clear the snow on our pavement at all last year. Not once.

messageRe: SWEEP YOUR OWN LEAVES, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by Marmora Man 15 November, 2010 12:34

Quote:
Sedgwick said
Considering the amount of council tax we pay I personally wont be sweeping any leaves or clearing ice from the streets or taking part in any other activity that is supposedly covered by my paying of council tax

But if we all did our bit in sweeping leaves, clearing snow etc that can be regarded as a physical, non financial, contribution to the local area that avoids an increase in local taxes. As an added benefit we might get to know our neighbours, help out th elderly who were unable to sweep / clear and perhaps as an added bonus everyone would take a little more civic pride intheir immediate vicinity.

Leaving the proverbial / anecdotal "them" to do it is, to my mind, a deriliction of public duty - regardless of the level of council tax.

messageRe: SWEEP YOUR OWN LEAVES, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by Huguenot 15 November, 2010 13:14

Unemployment Benefit claimants?

messageRe: sweep your own leaves, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by computedshorty 15 November, 2010 13:17

My neighbour has a public tree growing in the pavement, she always sweeps the leaves from her frontage onto mine, not trying to collect them for disposal, she does the same with the snow.
When a bus passes the leaves get spread again, and the snow that gets piled into the curb by her gets melted and spewed over my frontage.
Nice lady has a face front and back.

messageRe: sweep your own leaves, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by The Minkey 15 November, 2010 13:45

The sort community-minded people who would clear up their own snow/leaves etc most probably already do so. Excluding those who are unable to wield a shovel, the rest would appear to prefer to run the risk of breaking an arm/leg during the daily slip-slide to and from the house to spending a little time dealing with it themselves BECAUSE that's what they pay their Council Tax for. Crazy but true, folks.

messageRe: sweep your own leaves, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by v_the_gelfling 15 November, 2010 14:16

A lot of people on my street already sweep leaves from outside their house, we do it from ours once a week. I don't recall the council shifting any of the snow from our pavements last year though, the roads, yes but pavements no. So not really sure what's being gained out of 'everybody' doing it..

messageRe: sweep your own leaves, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by louisiana 15 November, 2010 16:37

I don't think the council ever sweeps leaves or clears snow in this road (though we do get the gritter lorries when appropriate). Even our pavements are looking more than a little ropey after endless utilities digging over the last quarter century filled with random tarmac.

I'm in favour of people clearing their own leaves and snow.
Are we going to be issued with a community broom for each street? smiling smiley
Many flat-dwellers don't have the heavy-duty outdoor variety.

messageRe: sweep your own leaves, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by RosieH 15 November, 2010 20:35

Snap.

I don't mean to be unhelpful but I own neither broom nor shovel (dustpan and brush aside). Having traversed the mulchy leaves in frippantly high heels, I know this is a task that needs doing, but I'm afraid my tools are not fit for purpose.

messageRe: sweep your own leaves, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by Applespider 15 November, 2010 23:42

I'm a flat dweller and since our communal garden has a large tree, we bought (as a group) a relatively cheap brush/rake to use on both the 'garden' and the pavement. A brush is hardly expensive (it's not like insisting on a large powered leafblower) and snow shovels can be had for a few pounds. You'd get both brush and shovel for well under £10

One thing on snow-clearing though is what happens with grit. My family still live in Scotland where there are grit 'skips' every few hundred metres and it's quite common for people to clear the pavement in front of their homes of snow. The council fill the grit bins and then residents grab a bucket (also fairly cheap) to carry some home for the pavement and drive. Do we have grit bins down here?

messageRe: sweep your own leaves, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by cate 16 November, 2010 00:12

Agree, we need more grit bins. Shovels not enough when it is icy and snowy. Or just icy.

messageRe: sweep your own leaves, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by Eileen 16 November, 2010 03:41

v_the_gelfling Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A lot of people on my street already sweep leaves
> from outside their house, we do it from ours once
> a week. I don't recall the council shifting any of
> the snow from our pavements last year though, the
> roads, yes but pavements no. So not really sure
> what's being gained out of 'everybody' doing it..

It is perhaps more that if everyone, who can, will clear the snow before it gets trodden into ice, then it is easy to keep the paths clear to prevent people falling and hurting themselves on ice. It is so easy to do before it gets walked on. My neighbour slipped and smashed very badly the bone in his arm last winter just because of ice outside someone’s house. The Council cleared no snow or ice in our street - paths or road - throughout the weeks of snow fall last winter. So doing it here wouldn’t cost anyone a job and could save much pain and anguish. I grew up in the NE of England and it was standard practice to clear the snow outside our houses. It used to be here in Peckham too when I came here in the 70s. I still do it. It takes just a few minutes as well to clear some of the paths in front of the two adjacent houses. It wouldn’t take much for the whole street to be cleared with some doing a bit more for those who can't for whatever reasons. I am thrilled that this is now a topic for debate.

messageRe: sweep your own leaves, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by James Barber 16 November, 2010 08:08

Grit bins is an issue.
We rarely get terrible winters like last winter for grit bins to be regulalry used. So most often in Southwark grit bins get used as rubbish bins or as they're plastic set alight. Additionally they need to keep their lids else waterlogging makes the salt/grit comibnation gell and hard to shift. But the flaps on the grit bins are usually the first thing to go.

Last year we arranged for the council to buy 120 human powered salt spreaders for pavements to add to the three lorry salt spreaders. These 120 are enough to cover the whole boroughs network of 340km or 680km of pavements if the 600 street cleaners are well led and managed. Even using one of these spreaders at 1kph it should only take half a day.

I've checked and Southwarks Winter Service Plan doesn't appear to have been issued - which last year commenced on 16 Noveber - so I've asked the director accountable whats happened to it.

--------------------
Regards cllrjamesbarber@gmail.com
07900 227366
Liberal Democrat Councillor for East Dulwich Ward
Skype cllrjamesbarber
[www.jamesbarber.org.uk]
[twitter.com]

messageRe: sweep your own leaves, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by Nero 16 November, 2010 08:55

James, I reported to the environment line at Southwark that the grit bin near to the Plough at the very top of Barry Rd was full of water and had no lid. Nothing has been done some six weeks after I reported it. It's an important junction, so could you ask whether it will be either removed (cos it is now useless and waterlogged and full of rubbish) or replaced. Thanks.

messageRe: sweep your own leaves, clean your own ice and snow: saving the council money balancing the budget
Posted by louisiana 16 November, 2010 09:33

There may be no Winter Service Plan yet James, but late last night our road was gritted.

Goto Page: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2

Back to top of page
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Donate                   Terms of use                  Help & FAQs                   Advertise               RSS rss feed