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messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by diable rouge August 08, 03:44PM

There will be a GE no matter what happens. His strategy is if he No Deals then that kills off the BP and he has a much better chance of winning a GE, question then is who do Remainers vote for, especially if Labour and Lib Dems have been seen to enable No Deal, which is looking likely if they won't form a temp GNU to stop ND...

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by JohnL August 08, 04:54PM

Even if Johnson gets no deal, gets an election quick enough after no deal that the reality hasn't sunk in yet and neutralises nigel farage.

He still may not win as brexit might be seen to be over and his job done - Atlee won in 1946

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Sue August 08, 05:49PM

DulwichFox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Why not keep all the money we send to the E.U. and
> spend all of it on things we need to spend it on.
>
> Like The NHS, Policing, Schools, restoring TV
> licences for the over 75's
>


Dulwich Fox, do you realise how much money is being spent on Brexit?

Before it has even started?

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by malumbu August 08, 09:31PM

Churchill ran a bad campaign and Atlee promised a brave new world. BJ will not run a bad campaign and despite many of the good Labour policies Corbyn will not be trusted by the majority of the electorate, like, ummhh, Blair in 97.....

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by paulu197 August 08, 09:58PM

In order for a good government to exist, one needs a strong opposition to act as a counter weight. It astounds me that Jeremy Corbyn states that the Conservatives are in trouble, yet the Labor party are now on par with the lib dems.

Remove Corbyn, get someone in that appeals to Labor's true heartland and not the champagne socialists. Offer solutions that don't always start with 'tax the wealthy more'. This is nothing more than a tagline.

One of the ironies of the Brexit parliamentary voting is that all nine options were defeated which shows that people either won't compromise OR there is too much confusion. Given that it was a non binding referendum, don't make it binding but acknowledge that the UK is divided on this issue and discuss ways of unifying this great country taking into account peoples beliefs

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Sue August 08, 10:59PM

paulu197 Wrote:
--------------------------------------------
>
> Remove Corbyn, get someone in that appeals to
> Labor's true heartland and not the champagne
> socialists.


Eh?

I joined the Labour Party precisely because Corbyn was bringing it back to its core principles!

Who do you think will "appeal to Labour's true heartland"?

And why?

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Sue August 08, 11:29PM

Dulwich Fox:

[www.facebook.com]

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Sephiroth August 09, 08:48AM

"I joined the Labour Party precisely because Corbyn was bringing it back to its core principles!

Who do you think will "appeal to Labour's true heartland"? "

My hope is that Labour at least makes itself electable again in my lifetime - 4 years of Corbyn has taken it backwards

When Labour was winning elections (comfortably) it was convincing many people across the country who often vote Tory or LibDem to vote for them. Some people think that's an unworthy goal. But appealing only to people who subscribe to Corbyn/Milne and co will see Labour stuck in opposition for foreseeable future, and the Tories, no matter how dreadful, have a free pass

Being pleased that the current leader is true to "core principles" seems like a privileged indulgence to me

But I do have to accept that times are fractious and polls unreliable - so there is a chance he MIGHT win an election. But then we are stuck with a not very bright or capable man running the country in the aftermath of Brexit - and THAT will see Labour out of power for generations-

So that's me ragging on the Labour party in it's current state - but I am a Labour supporter - just one of the ones that Corbyn supporters like to dismiss as centrist and mock as "sensibles"

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by DulwichFox August 09, 11:27AM

Sue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dulwich Fox:
>
> [www.facebook.com]
> 1390650019049/

Cannot read that.. Do not have a Facebook account. so cannot open link

DulwichFox

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by JohnL August 09, 11:27AM

Looks like GDP fell in the 2nd quarter as stockpiles were used up - I'd expect growth in the 3rd quarter as everybody's stockpiling again.

Chaos, this is no way to run a country sad smiley

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by diable rouge August 09, 11:33AM

We might not be able to stockpile if warehouses are already filling up with pre-Xmas stuff...

messageRe: Brexit Viewattachment
Posted by Sue August 09, 03:40PM

DulwichFox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sue Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Dulwich Fox:
> >
> >
> [www.facebook.com]
>
> > 1390650019049/
>
> Cannot read that.. Do not have a Facebook account.
> so cannot open link


See the attached photo smiling smiley

Attachments: New Brexit Bus.jpg (36.8KB)  
messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by diable rouge August 09, 05:16PM

Let's not forget that 1bn of that isn't 'new money' as Bozo the Clown keeps saying, it's money the NHS has been stockpiling due to Gov spending caps...

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by JohnL August 13, 10:04AM

So the Telegraph have managed to get a COMRES poll to show a mmajority for No Deal (excluding a large amount of don't knows).


Wonder if some are just giving him enough rope to hang himself.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by diable rouge August 13, 10:13AM

The Telegraph is nothing more than a Johnson propaganda rag these days. it's actually quite embarrassing for a so called quality newspaper to prostitute itself like that, and probably explains the dramatic fall in sales...

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by snowy August 13, 11:57AM

The ComRes didn't actually report that people were in favour - they just interpreted the data to meet their own agenda.

They also had dreadful Q1 results and put lots of people at risk of redundancy last month - hence their leap to populist

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Hemingway August 13, 01:06PM

Makes me laugh all this wailing now a all those MPs, Labour, LDs, Green (1) who voted against May's WA are complicit if we get No Deal. We should have taken the deal then, is about good as we'll get.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by diable rouge August 13, 01:17PM

Hindsight's a wonderful thing. I don't think No Deal will happen anyway, Cummings is engineering a 'people versus politicians' GE...

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Sephiroth August 13, 02:48PM

"We should have taken the deal then,"

it was a very bad deal (all brexit deals are) and would have led to all manner of problems

Checking with the country to see if they have changed their mind is the only grown up thing to do - staying in is by some distance the best deal and I think enough people know that now

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Sephiroth August 13, 03:13PM

(and if they don't know it by now, if they decide to push ahead, at least it will have legitimacy the current situation doesn't have. It will still be brutally stupid and wrong, but I will shut up about it. All doubt will have been removed)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was august 13, 03:14pm by Sephiroth.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Alan Medic August 13, 03:23PM

I started listening to Iain Dale on LBC last night and realised I have just had enough of listening to people who are pro Brexit. I switched over. Getting to the end of my resistance. Part of me just wants to see certain people try and explain away the shit when it hits the fan.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Sephiroth August 13, 03:26PM

quite so Alan

At this point there is some weird groupthink in play, where even previously sensible people are convincing themselves that No deal won't be too bad

In years to come, this country will be a case study on psychology courses

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by JohnL August 13, 03:53PM

snowy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The ComRes didn't actually report that people were
> in favour - they just interpreted the data to meet
> their own agenda.
>
> They also had dreadful Q1 results and put lots of
> people at risk of redundancy last month - hence
> their leap to populist


The Guardian has managed to put up a little article about polling today - totally coincidental of course.

[www.theguardian.com]

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by snowy August 13, 04:16PM

JohnL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> snowy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The ComRes didn't actually report that people
> were
> > in favour - they just interpreted the data to
> meet
> > their own agenda.
> >
> > They also had dreadful Q1 results and put lots
> of
> > people at risk of redundancy last month - hence
> > their leap to populist
>
>
> The Guardian has managed to put up a little
> article about polling today - totally coincidental
> of course.
>
> [www.theguardian.com]
> /13/political-poll-results-polling-industry-data

ha, probably as they're on twitter reading the Ipsos Mori responses:
[twitter.com]

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by pk August 13, 04:25PM

Hemingway Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Makes me laugh all this wailing now a all those
> MPs, Labour, LDs, Green (1) who voted against
> May's WA are complicit if we get No Deal. We
> should have taken the deal then, is about good as
> we'll get.

it's weird what some people find funny

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by diable rouge August 13, 04:44PM

Alan Medic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Getting to the end of my resistance. Part of me
> just wants to see certain people try and explain
> away the shit when it hits the fan.

I have long felt that in order to fully exorcise Brexit once and for all, No Deal has to happen, otherwise there will always be the blame game, ''We didn't get a clean Brexit'' etc etc, and as you say let them own their shit and explain it away. But the damage it would cause at home and abroad, socially and economically, is too great to not and try to resist it. Feck 'em.

Going back to Hemingway's last post, I have no issue with Remain MPs who voted against the WA, they have done it with good intentions, the politicians I have come to despise are the Rudds and Hancocks who in the space of days have gone from saying how bad No Deal would be to saying it'll be ok, for no other reason than pursuing their own political careers. It's these people that if No Deal happens will have a special place in Hell...

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Hemingway August 13, 04:46PM

"it makes me laugh", in a you've got to laugh or cry sense rather than rolling on the floor in hysterics. Just a wry smile at those moaning about the calamitous effects of a 'no deal' when their rejection of May's deal is why we are where we are.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by pk August 13, 04:49PM

Hemingway Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just a wry smile at those moaning
> about the calamitous effects of a 'no deal' when
> their rejection of May's deal is why we are where
> we are.

no it's not

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Hemingway August 13, 04:51PM

Sephiroth Wrote:

> Checking with the country to see if they have
> changed their mind is the only grown up thing to
> do - staying in is by some distance the best deal
> and I think enough people know that now


It may be - but the Tories are never going to do this and with Corbyn up top nor are Labour. The rest haven't got the numbers. I also think you're very optimistic on the 'enough people' looking at the polls and voting intentions. I think we're pretty much where we were.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Sephiroth August 13, 04:51PM

"their rejection of May's deal is why we are where we are."

But that rejection is simply a refelection of how ill-defined "Brexit" is

You might think that May's deal is some kind of compromise that would be a foundation for a way forward - but it would have been a house built on sand

Complaining about a no deal AND about the state of May's deal are in no way incompatible positions - both were and are awful ideas. There are other ways forward but noone wants to grasp that nettle

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